Gia Kvaratskhelia Foil Coaching Clinic in San Antonio – April 3-5, 2009

[MdA]

Originally Posted by Jason

....I don't believe in "the benefit of the doubt."
However, considering where you may be taking this discussion, I'm willing to be right on board.

Are you guys trying to derail this thread? I think it is providing some good info.

This is an example of why a lot of coaches don't go to clinics or training courses...they don't want to put up with this type of ridicule. If you want to go after somebody, why don’t you take it to the Water Cooler?

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by MdA

Are you guys trying to derail this thread? I think it is providing some good info.

I'm not trying to 'derail this thread'. I asked the exact same question you did. I simply noted that the answer might rate on the unintentional comedy scale.

This is an example of why a lot of coaches don't go to clinics or training courses...they don't want to put up with this type of ridicule. If you want to go after somebody, why don’t you take it to the Water Cooler?

No. I'm not interested in ridiculing this course, or the instructors.

I am, however, absolutely amused by the 'critique' of vulgar practitioners who feel compelled to provide input based on a youtube video.

Gia is one of the best (and most true) coaches I've ever observed or encountered.

[Allen Evans]

After you're done laughing, would you mind giving a vulger practitioner some insights on the discrepancy in the tempo used in the cues that has me so uncomfortable?

[AntonioDelMonte]

Gentleman, while I was unable to attend Gia's clinic might we just settle down and wait for Mda to finish posting all the video he has of this clinic before we go and pick the entire thing apart the maybe things that have not been posted yet that will clarify the questions put forth on this thread

[Jason]

Originally Posted by MdA

Are you guys trying to derail this thread? I think it is providing some good info.

This is an example of why a lot of coaches don't go to clinics or training courses...they don't want to put up with this type of ridicule. If you want to go after somebody, why don’t you take it to the Water Cooler?

I like to think that I have added something positive to the thread. That said, there's always room for a little comedy. Relax.

Originally Posted by AntonioDelMonte

Gentleman, while I was unable to attend Gia's clinic might we just settle down and wait for Mda to finish posting all the video he has of this clinic before we go and pick the entire thing apart the maybe things that have not been posted yet that will clarify the questions put forth on this thread

Why? A lot of valuable conversation can take place without seeing everything that's there.

Don't make the mistake of interpreting criticisms of the video as being a criticism of the person. There is always time for theoretical discourse.

[keith]

Originally Posted by Jason

Don't make the mistake of interpreting criticisms of the video as being a criticism of the person. There is always time for theoretical discourse.

Although in most such cases it is helpful to have both the stated aim of the exercise and where it fits in the grand scheme.

Was the aim AiP, fast actions at close/closing distance to drive co-ordination of arm/hand/fingers, or 'simply' confidence building?

It was, however, an absolutely useless exercise on the proper use of the Italian grip.

[MdA]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

…..
Gia is one of the best (and most true) coaches I've ever observed or encountered.

I agree with you on this point

Originally Posted by Jason

….That said, there's always room for a little comedy. Relax.

Why? A lot of valuable conversation can take place without seeing everything that's there.

Don't make the mistake of interpreting criticisms of the video as being a criticism of the person. There is always time for theoretical discourse.

I also agree with you on these points. I just don’t want to shut anybody down…or shut anybody out…just for fun. And, I am still waiting for an answer to my Blocked, Serial, Random question…don’t be shy.

Originally Posted by keith

Although in most such cases it is helpful to have both the stated aim of the exercise and where it fits in the grand scheme.

Was the aim AiP, fast actions at close/closing distance to drive co-ordination of arm/hand/fingers, or 'simply' confidence building?

It was, however, an absolutely useless exercise on the proper use of the Italian grip.

There is no extended introduction for this portion of the lesson in Gia’s presentation. The multiple hit drill is just an example of one of his warm-up excercises. I think the aim of the AiP portion of the lesson was to practice the “How, When, and Where” of AiP in a specific bout situation.

What about the second clip. He now has Nick doing an attack with lunge in response to a parry 4. Comments? Discussion? Is it effective? Adler?

….and if you really want to derail this thread….just keep mentioning the “Italian grip”

[MdA]

Originally Posted by Jason

When the AiP should come, and how you control the movement to create the situation, will vary with the way the opponent is preparing. In the case of this lesson, the coach has very little variation in the way he prepares. The result is then that the student is not developing a real ability to execute--or a true understanding of--attack in preparation.

There is no such thing as a fencing exercise where variations in rhythm, speed, timing, etc., doesn't matter.

I have seen Gia vary his rhythm, speed, timing, etc. He started a little fast in this presentation. Remember, he was doing a presentation for coaches and not just a lesson for the fencer. I think he was moving along quickly in order to cover more material. There is no doubt he could have spent more time developing this exercise….and I agree that every coach should do it.

Like many coaches …Gia tends to favor one speed or tempo…which tends to be pretty fast. In my case, I often have to remind myself to change these elements during my lessons. I usually notice it, after many repetitions of the same movement….just like when I was fencing. I think “Hey, this is getting really predictable”….so I make a conscious effort to change it. But, I must admit …when I am lazy…I fall into my usual tempo and rhythm and speed. Sometimes when I have been doing this…I make a change and give very fast, high speed part of the lesson..or have the student execute the footwork or handwork with a different tempo….this clip might be an example of that high speed variation.

[MdA]

Here is a helpful video

http://www.articlesbase.com/videos/5min/28027833

[MdA]

Here is another link.

http://www.ivfc.us/id7.html

Thanks to Gerry Duran and my friend Vinnie.

[MdA]

Next video clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGDHucDnTjg

[Adler]

Originally Posted by MdA

What about the second clip. He now has Nick doing an attack with lunge in response to a parry 4. Comments? Discussion? Is it effective? Adler?

I think answering whether or not it's effective is very difficult without knowing the intentions of the coach. However, it has produced a lot of creative discussion which I would say is one very positive effect.
Many of the coaching points I made in my previous post apply to this clip as well * so I won’t repeat them.

* With a slightly pedantic side note of in the second clip if the pupil is not attacking then the coach can't parry so it should be an attack with a lunge deceiving the coaches attempted Quarte Engagement.

If every cue is to be done at realistic speed then the drill needs to be done at a bout-like realistic (medium) distance. This would give the student the appropriate amount of time/distance to react to any cue. This would make the student most comfortable and allow him time to set it up…which is what I think Adler was getting to. But the students energy and effort would be expended in the repeating the set up actions…and wouldn't allow enough focus on the specific action to be practiced.

Although the realism element is very important part of the reason I would prefer a longer distance in this exercise is that it can be progressed to include a more tactical element where the pupil has choose the appropriate response depending on the tactical situation and the pupils understanding of the coaches intentions. For example:

1) Pupil practices an attack on preparation on the coach’s initiative.

2) Pupil practices an attack on preparation on their initiative.

3) Both the coach and pupil manoeuvre. The pupil looks for the best time to attack.

4) On the coaches initiative.

Coach: either takes a careless preparatory step forward or steps forward with the intention of drawing the pupils attack on preparation and parrying it.

Pupil: chooses either a simple attack on preparation or if they suspect the trap either attacks with feint disengage or a realistic false attack followed by a real second intention parry counter riposte.

5) Same as above but on the pupil’s initiative using various preparations to work out the coaches intentions and create the opportunity to hit. Possibly in the form of a bout lesson with the coach.

[MdA]

Originally Posted by Adler

….
Although the realism element is very important part of the reason I would prefer a longer distance in this exercise is that it can be progressed to include a more tactical element where the pupil has choose the appropriate response depending on the tactical situation and the pupils understanding of the coaches intentions. For example:……

1) Pupil practices an attack on preparation on the coach’s initiative.

I think Gia is already doing this in Clips 3 and 4.

Originally Posted by Adler

….
2) Pupil practices an attack on preparation on their initiative.

I think Gia gets into this in Part 8…the student does an attack in 4 to draw the parry and then does a stop thrust (arret) while recovering from the lunge

Originally Posted by Adler

….
3) Both the coach and pupil maneuver. The pupil looks for the best time to attack.

I don’t think he ever gets into this more random exercise in any of these clips although the final portion of the video (which has not been posted yet) gets very close to this type exercise. Most of the exercise in these clips and Gia’s presentation are coach initiated.

Originally Posted by Adler

….
4) On the coaches initiative.

Coach: either takes a careless preparatory step forward or steps forward with the intention of drawing the pupils attack on preparation and parrying it.

Pupil: chooses either a simple attack on preparation or if they suspect the trap either attacks with feint disengage or a realistic false attack followed by a real second intention parry counter riposte.

I think Gia is doing this in Parts 3 and 4 although at close distance…when Nick is late with the AiP, Gia either parries it or points out that it is late. When Nick does AiP, out-of-distance, he gets parried with riposte. Although he never gets into the parry counter riposte...but he does have Nick continue into a remise at very close distance

Originally Posted by Adler

….
5) Same as above but on the pupil’s initiative using various preparations to work out the coaches intentions and create the opportunity to hit. Possibly in the form of a bout lesson with the coach

Gia does not really get into many student/fencer/pupil initiated drills in these video clips. As mentioned above, most are coach initiated. He does get close to this type of random bout-like lesson at many points in the lesson…but most actions are still initiated by the coach. Probably because it is a demo for other coaches and he is driving and controlling most of the actions….so he can explain. IMO student initiated drills have a lot of mistakes…which need constant correction and are difficult to present at a clinic…with a student that you don’t work with everyday.

I think you make some very good points. If you look at the Part 8 clip and later in Part 9 which is not posted yet, you will see that Gia begins to develop the lesson in the direction that you suggest…IMO.

The distance opens to medium distance and the student begins to initiate.

[MdA]

Originally Posted by Jason

.....
There is no such thing as a fencing exercise where variations in rhythm, speed, timing, etc., doesn't matter.

Also, in part 8, Gia addresses these elements in Nick's false attack....talks about smooth, slower preparation.

[MdA]

Originally Posted by MdA

……
Like many coaches …Gia tends to favor one speed or tempo…which tends to be pretty fast…..

Another thought on this item. I was re-watching a portion of the video. I not sure if it is in the clips that I posted. He talks about speed. To paraphrase…He says that in order “to be competitive in modern foil today, you must train at very “high speed”. “You might make the top 32 of a national event at normal speed but in order to make the top 8 the speed is very fast” “The opening is only there for a fraction of a second against the top fencers”…in the case of AiP, as in the video clip.

So his lessons are at a high speed and tempo. If you want a DVD copy of the entire video….send me a PM.

[keith]

Originally Posted by MdA

Another thought on this item. I was re-watching a portion of the video. I not sure if it is in the clips that I posted. He talks about speed. To paraphrase…He says that in order “to be competitive in modern foil today, you must train at very “high speed”. “You might make the top 32 of a national event at normal speed but in order to make the top 8 the speed is very fast” “The opening is only there for a fraction of a second against the top fencers”…in the case of AiP, as in the video clip.

Although in clip 8 he asks the student to slow down.

Not having gone through all the clips but looking at clip 1 then clip 8 you see the intention behind what the warm up drill - fast hand/arm speed to take the AiP when presented. There also seems to be an emphasis on disconnecting the hand and foot actions with the feet working at a more patient tempo (until after the AiP is made). Again the absence of footwork in the warm up seems to tie in.

/2cents

[MdA]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXeLxEFHFjk

Gia Foil Lesson Part 5

“See the Preparation” AiP is now executed at medium distance with a lunge instead of the close distance used in Part 3 of this lesson.

Gia Kvaratshelia, varsity foil coach at Notre Dame continues lesson focused on attack with a disengage when the coach makes a preparation (attempts to take or engage the fencer’s the blade in the 4 line). He keeps score, making the lesson more bout-like and tells Nick’s father (and coach), to remind him with strip-side coaching to “See the Preparation” This makes it easier for the fencer and the coach to make this action work in a real bout. During competition, the coach can use the same terminology, and refer to this specific action, when coaching from strip-side.

The first three touches Gia forces the student to be out-of-distance. Nick self corrects. Gia stresses that distance must be perfect. Coach does parry riposte if Nick attacks out-of-distance. Nick’s footwork must be perfect to maintain the perfect distance for the attack into preparation. Note this action is practiced from medium distance and is executed with a lunge.

Score is 3-3. At around 2:43 is an example of a mistake by the fencer that requires correction. Nick is at the perfect distance for the AiP but Gia points out that his extension is too slow, he moves the front foot before he extends and by that time the coach closes the line.

Gia talks about simulating the “degree of difficulty” in the lesson. “Every touch matters” leading up to the week before a major competition (North American Cup, Jr. Olympics, Jr. World Cup). He talks about simulating “real world” competitive situations in the lesson leading up to critical competitions. After a big competition, he “decompresses” the students with lessons that review mechanical skills in a less stressful lesson environment. At 4:03 he talks about working on simple set skills in the lessons the week before a competition because the emotional/psycho stress it too high. But a month away from big competitions, like the Jr. Olympics, the coach must create pressure on the fencer during the lesson. He says, “You can’t hide from the pressure”.

Nick loses the bout-lesson, 5-4 on a parry riposte from Gia. Gia asks why did you attack late, and Nick says he hesitated because of “pressure”. Gia says “then I achieved my goal” He goes on to say that he will work many times on this action until the fencer can execute without failure. He will find the situations that make him fail and work on them until the fencer achieves success in those situations.

In the next portion, he develops off the original action. Nick does AiP when the coach attempts to take his blade in 4. In this case, Gia’s say’s he has run into a “phenom” who can still make the parry 6 and Nick will need to do a parry in 6 with disengage. They start slow.

Nick fails to keep the distance when retreating at the beginning, and Gia scores twice. Gia mixes the actions sometimes the AiP succeeds and sometimes the counter parry by Nick is required.

Gia increases the distance to advance lunge distance at the end of this clip. Now the fencer must break into lunge distance “the critical distance” to deliver the touch. He gives him a “set piece” where the fencer must do a double disengage around the coaches attempt to take the blade twice in 4.

…and the rest is in Part 6…..

[Jason]

I'll reiterate something RIT mentioned earlier: it's fantastic that Gia uses real footwork and doesn't just walk rhythmically through the lesson. Using real footwork is so unbelievably beneficial to the student that it amazing how rarely it's employed.