16 Coaches are now registered for this clinic. Looks like it will be a good group. Just a gentle reminder. Registration closes on AskFred on 3/20/09. You don't need to pay in advance...just let us know if you are coming so we can print enough materials...order enough refreshments, and plan for the Andrei's birthday party.
__________________
"...you must be a pirate for the pirate's code to apply and you're not. And thirdly, the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules." Capt. Barbossa
Last edited by MdA; 03-16-2009 at 07:37 PM..
Reason: msp
Tex-Mex restaurant and trip to the River Walk was also a lot of fun.
The following three coaches passed the Moniteur exam:
Scott Nichols - Ontario Center for Classical Sports - Canada
Ron Jackson - Ontario Center for Classical Sports - Canada
John Bedell - Alamo Fencing Academy - San Antonio
Attached is a copy of the Certificate of Attendance that was presented to all coaches who attended the clinic
Gia gave an hour lesson with stuff to work/repeat for 2-3 hrs. The lesson was very intense and high-level foil fencing. He demonstrated examples to work with distance, opponent/bouting analysis, fencer response choices, tempo, openings, drills for second/third intentions, drills for infighting, get in/get out drills, etc. Through out the lesson, he described what he saw in the student, what his reasoning was, and what alternatives were available.
It was a piece of art, and the best Foil lesson I ever seen. We were very lucky to have him here!
__________________
"...you must be a pirate for the pirate's code to apply and you're not. And thirdly, the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules." Capt. Barbossa
I'm also not a bit fan of "clicking". That said, this lesson isn't an example of a lesson where it's overly present. Yes, the signal for the end of a segment is a click to the bell. Otherwise the actions flow one after the other in rapid-fire series and the student is required to continue moving and continue with the actions.
I'd say this is a great example of how continued work should be done, rather than an example of a lesson where the coach is making/allowing the student to relax after an action.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adler
5) Personally I think that the lesson's distance is too close.
What possible other distance would you prefer? Gia does a good job of showing when Nick is attempting the AiP from too far. Anything beyond the distance at which this is done and the action would fail. Either it would fall short or the opponent would have time to parry and riposte. Or the student would have to add more to the action, allowing the opponent to finish the initial attack.
The lesson is looking at a single action, which is done at a fairly close distance. Of course the lesson doesn't take place at full bouting distance.
-B
__________________
"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
1) The coach’s attacks don't actually threaten the pupil.
I think they get close enough to get the point across. He's not working on parries, so an unrealistic attack isn't as big of a deal (training to parry something that wouldn't hit).
Quote:
4) The lesson is too rushed and as a result the pupils actions are tense and rushed as well.
In that distance, the fencer better be ready for whatever rapid exchange is necessary. I don't think it's too rushed, it's operating at a high tempo; and the hit-hit-hit segment of the lesson should have prepared the student for that tempo.
Quote:
5) Personally I think that the lesson's distance is too close.
If you want to hit in preparation, you'd better be close.
I think they get close enough to get the point across. He's not working on parries, so an unrealistic attack isn't as big of a deal (training to parry something that wouldn't hit).
In that distance, the fencer better be ready for whatever rapid exchange is necessary. I don't think it's too rushed, it's operating at a high tempo; and the hit-hit-hit segment of the lesson should have prepared the student for that tempo.
If you want to hit in preparation, you'd better be close.
darius
I agree with darius. For this lesson, you can assume that any prep footwork has been done to close the distance.
Generally, I would prefer the attack in preparation to be earlier from medium distance with an explosive lunge as the opponent starts his step forward.
Quote:
I think they get close enough to get the point across. He's not working on parries, so an unrealistic attack isn't as big of a deal (training to parry something that wouldn't hit).
If it’s an unrealistic attack why parry it?
Even if perfecting parries and ripostes isn't the main focus of the exercise the coach should still attack realistically otherwise its false conditioning. IMO For a few of the close quarter parries a remise would have been more appropriate.
Quote:
In that distance, the fencer better be ready for whatever rapid exchange is necessary. I don't think it's too rushed, it's operating at a high tempo; and the hit-hit-hit segment of the lesson should have prepared the student for that tempo.
I suppose that this is a case of one person’s high tempo is another person’s rushed.
Even at high speeds the coach’s movements should not lead to the pupil tensing up.
Generally, I would prefer the attack in preparation to be earlier from medium distance with an explosive lunge as the opponent starts his step forward.
Sure, but if you're working on an attack-in-prep with an extension, then that's what you're working on. He's doing the action while maintaining distance, then adds distance assessment at the end (with the same cue but larger distance).
Quote:
If it’s an unrealistic attack why parry it?
Isn't that why he didn't? The warm-up part of the lesson included some quick beat-parry, riposte work, but the main idea (hitting in preparation w/ extension) did not. The student was using his legs to maintain distance when the coach attacked.
Quote:
Wouldn't you get a clearer picture if the preparation was included in the lesson.
You'd make it more like a bout, certainly. I don't know if you can judge whether you've got a 'clearer picture' from a 10 min clip on the Internet -- for all we know, he did that afterwards. But this is a very specific lesson; with some imagination, anybody could develop the ideas that Gia's put forth here.
Generally, I would prefer the attack in preparation to be earlier from medium distance with an explosive lunge as the opponent starts his step forward.
I think that's even addressed directly in the video here. Rewatch starting around 2:22. The next 15-30 seconds deal with this issue.
Gia explains why a longer distance isn't appropriate. During the lesson he additionally shows why it isn't. When Nick makes an error and attempts the AiP from too far it fails (either with distance or with parry). Granted Nick doesn't attempt to launch from too far with an explosive lunge, Gia's explanation at point I've indicated discusses why it shouldn't work even if he did.
You can argue that Gia's simply wrong, but then we're into a different discussion.*
-B
* Perfectly willing to have that discussion in another thread. Gia's right, in my opinion.
__________________
"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
Remember this is an advanced lesson with a high-level fencer. The coach and the fencer have worked together many times in the past. Medium distance might be more appropriate for a medium level student in order to put the whole lesson together. In fact, there is a warm-up portion to this lesson which is before this drill that works at establishing the lunge distance. In an effort to get into the “meat” of the lesson, I cut directly to this section.
I will post the other portions in the near future.
I would like to credit Head Coach Rolando Balboa of the Brooklyn Fencing Center for taking this video and providing me a copy. I will credit him on Youtube when I get a chance to edit.
The distance is fine for what they're working on, especially given that it's foil.
It is way too rushed though. That's not to say that one can't or shouldn't have high-speed elements in a lesson, but because everything is high speed and Nick never has a moment to relax, he is in fact--as Adler says--very tense. I think for the sake of the coaches watching, Gia's explanations are also far too rushed. I think he should have been much more relaxed--this benefits the student tremendously and, in this instance, the observers.
Adler's also quite correct about the coach's "attacks" being nonsense. There's no reason to use make-believe movements. It doesn't help anything.
While there are several problems with the demonstration, it should be noted that it was high-energy, interesting, and engaged the student's mind. The value of these elements cannot be overstated.
Many thanks to Rolando for filming and Wendell for posting.
Thank you so much for posting this! I really enjoyed watching, and will look through a few more times, too.
Great lesson overall, and there are some things I really like that haven't been mentioned yet:
Gia's use of footwork forces Nick to stay balanced and alert, rather than just drowsily following, especially when the two are making super small steps, almost in place. That part reminded me very much of two fencers trying to create an opening.
Good progression from the warm up; starting with a direct AiP to feel the moment and then moving on to one disengage, then a choice between double and 1-2. I personally would have thrown in some direct and single disengage cues in there to keep the student alert, but that's me.
Good use of voice. Gia gives enough simple, direct feedback to correct and reinforce Nick without confusing or overloading.
An admission that this is his way of doing things, but not the only way. When he said that there are other apporaches, but that he wanted to show how he does things, I gained a lot more respect for Gia (not that there was a shortage to begin with.) That speaks a lot to both a coach's character and their flexibility.
There's a lot more than this which impressed me, but I wanted to touch on things which haven't recieved much mention.
I would really like to see the portion devoted to setting up the lunge distance, and I'd also be fascinated to see a more student controlled or adversarial lesson focussed on setting up the AiP, whether as a progression of touches, a trap to set, or whatever.
Please keep posting, and let us know if there will be another clinic next year!
__________________
"If I were ever to challenge you to a duel, your best bet would be battle axes in a very dark basement." Misquoted from The Prisoner
"Technical excellence is the antecedant of tactical creativity." - Nat Goodhartz
But those things which belong neither to God nor to Caeser, feeleth free to writeth them off, for yea, they are deductable.
On the speed of the lesson and tension in general, I think that if the coach is aware of what they are doing and the effect on the student, it can be a good thing to include in lessons. Fencing is a high stress game, and fencers, especially at a high level, need to be able to perform under stress.
I'm not saying that Jason and Adler are totally wrong, and certainly not that a lesson teaching AiP to a newer fencer should be handled like this, but I think there is merit to the odd action or entire lesson moving at high tempo. Fast movement and, more importantly, the ability to tolerate stress are large parts of fencing success.
__________________
"If I were ever to challenge you to a duel, your best bet would be battle axes in a very dark basement." Misquoted from The Prisoner
"Technical excellence is the antecedant of tactical creativity." - Nat Goodhartz
But those things which belong neither to God nor to Caeser, feeleth free to writeth them off, for yea, they are deductable.
Fast movement and, more importantly, the ability to tolerate stress are large parts of fencing success.
Very true. However, Nick is clearly too tense here. Additionally, though you want some elements of high speed movement, it shouldn't be a constant, any more than it is a constant element in a bout.
Also--in addition to keeping the fencer loose--in order to perfect an action, you want to practice it at various rhythms, speeds, intensities, etc. Variety is extremely important.
…..
Adler's also quite correct about the coach's "attacks" being nonsense. There's no reason to use make-believe movements. It doesn't help anything.
I would like to address “nonsense” or “make-believe movements” I need to ask Gia why he uses these specific cues to simulate attacks….but I suspect, as with many coaches, that he learned them from his coach George “Big Gia” Abachidze (currently at Ohio State University).
Note that Nick is not wearing full protective clothing (jacket, plastron, pants) in this lesson. In the German system at Tauber, under Emil Beck, he required the coach and student wear full fencing clothes. This is still a very good idea. I applied this in all my lessons when I first returned from Germany 12 years ago. I must admit that I have become a little lax in this area in recent years…especially in the heat of South Texas. I often make attacks (or ripostes) that do not realistically threaten the fencer’s target in an effort to protect the student in case either of us makes a mistake....especially at high speed!!!
I also think this is also due to the familiarity between the coach and the student…Nick knows what Gia wants in the drill and is familiar with Gia’s cues….and due to the fact that the footwork in this particular drill is very demanding on the coach…as Gia mentions….I think he cheats a little on his cues.
But I agree with Adler and Jason, if you want to train under realistic conditions then both the coach and the fencer should wear full protective fencing clothes and the attacks and remises should be as realistic a possible.
Nervousness: this is the beginning of the lesson. You will see in later sections that Nick warms into the lesson. There is no doubt that it starts at “high tempo” but that’s his style.
Last edited by MdA; 06-15-2009 at 07:29 PM..
Reason: msp
Gia Advanced Foil Clinic a... "Great Success" in San Antonio 
Linear Mode
