The Septembrist Newsletter

[Kimmuriel]

Umm, okay guys, I must confess that I'm not new to fencing, I just want to say to you that I'm glad about how enthusiastic you are! I really enjoy your conversations in this topic, its remind me the old days when I started fencing... There are a lot of new fencers in my club now (it's the beginning of the new fencing season) and all of them are very fond of fencing. They are asking advices from the old club members such as me... I feel like I'm getting old! Not so long ago I was just an unskillful beginner who needed some good advices, but nowadays I am the one who is being asked. Strange feeling!

I hope all of you enjoy fencing for a long time!

[slow_learner]

We did a lot of footwork and then spent essentially the entire time on one complex drill: step + double disengage + lunge.

The good thing was I got mine right on the first try. Then it was just repetition. My partner OTOH found it totally confusing. I said let's do it in slo mo, and try it alone, etc., eventually he started to get it. And then it was suddenly the end of the class. One hour is much too little.

I can't believe you guys with your several sessions per week. I have to compensate with practice at home: tennis ball, improvised wall target, etc. But there may be light at the end of the tunnel. Walking out from this last class, I was talking with the assistant instructor and a lady who had been forced to sit out because of her bad knee, piped up and said "You looked awesome out there!" (Even our curmudgeonly instructor nodded a reluctant acknowledgment.) So the solo work must be paying off.

Two classes to go. I need to find out exactly what equipment they require for the "intermediate" classes. Then at last I should get to actually spend more than one lousy hour per week in the salle...

We still have 10 or 11 people in our class. I am getting the feeling maybe two or three of us will continue. Too bad because they are nice people and fun. This sport seems to attract interesting people.



Bizarre Thought of the Week: with all the talk of a crash and world-wide depression, my primary sentiment lately has been: OMG, how will this affect the availability of fencing to me?!?

[slow_learner]

Umm, okay guys, I must confess that I'm not new to fencing, I just want to say to you that I'm glad about how enthusiastic you are! I really enjoy your conversations in this topic, its remind me the old days when I started fencing... There are a lot of new fencers in my club now (it's the beginning of the new fencing season) and all of them are very fond of fencing. They are asking advices from the old club members such as me... I feel like I'm getting old! Not so long ago I was just an unskillful beginner who needed some good advices, but nowadays I am the one who is being asked. Strange feeling!

I hope all of you enjoy fencing for a long time!

Thanks, K.

And I look forward to the time when I am where you are, and with luck will have a much deeper understanding of this crazy sport, and can even help out other people...

You are in Hungary. What is the fencing culture like there? Much higher profile for the sport? Much more popular? Here in North America it is invisible.

[greaterthangatsby]

Slow_learner, there are times when I wish we were more of a group class, but the set-up we have is just great. Some might say I would probably end up developing bad habits by bouting so soon, but the other fencers (mostly people who have fenced for more than a year) stop the bout and tell me what I am doing wrong before we proceed.

Kimmuriel--like slow_learner said, fencing is pretty invisible in the US. Perhaps we need a Michael Phelps type, who will win on all three weapons at the Olympics to bring fencing to the fore.

[ApAperture]

Kimmuriel--like slow_learner said, fencing is pretty invisible in the US. Perhaps we need a Michael Phelps type, who will win on all three weapons at the Olympics to bring fencing to the fore.

I beg to differ. Phelps, bless his heart, was big because he had a great PR to back him up (and he kept people watching because he delivered). We have great fencers, we just seriously need that coverage.
Don't worry gatsby; I have a feeling its gonna come gradually.

[greaterthangatsby]

I beg to differ. Phelps, bless his heart, was big because he had a great PR to back him up (and he kept people watching because he delivered). We have great fencers, we just seriously need that coverage.
Don't worry gatsby; I have a feeling its gonna come gradually.

I hope so--I hope it's based on fencing being fencing, and not having to change the sport to make it "bigger." When I used to skate, they changed the format to make the sport more "accessible." In the end, it screwed up the scoring, and a lot of the things they were trying to prevent (judge collusion) became easier for the perpetrators.

I go back to the salle tonight. Tonight is epee night, but there are some loyal foilists who come. I can't wait =)

[ApAperture]

I'm not in the sport as deep as others but i I do not want to sell the sport cheap.

[greaterthangatsby]

My coach's group class needed an extra fencer today, so before my regular open fence, I fenced...sabre!

OMG IT WAS FUN!
Ok, I'm starting to sound like a schoolgirl, but I really like sabre and foil. Epee--not so much. Yet. Have any of you gotten to try the other weapons?

[slow_learner]

God No. I don't think my club even offers sabre.

[Kimmuriel]

You are in Hungary. What is the fencing culture like there? Much higher profile for the sport? Much more popular? Here in North America it is invisible.

Sadly, I have to say that the status of fencing in Hungary is quite tragic. Everything is about money and competitions, and noone cares about amateur fencing. The existing clubs are not for beginners and free time fencer amateurs, that's the main problem. If you want to be a fencer, then you should start fencing about at the age of 10. Amateur adults are not welcome at the clubs. I only know just 2 or 3 clubs where free time fencers can play this sport. I am a member one of these extremely rare clubs. Okay, let's see some really rankling statistics!

The number of fencing departments / the number of competitors in Hungary:

In 1952: 218/11000
In 1972: 92/5800
In 1992: 53/3600
In 2005: 62/2400

So if nothing changes fencing will extinct from Hungary sooner or later...
Oh, and one more thing! These clubs are in the capital city of Hungary, so if you live in the countryside you should choose an other sport, because you haven't got a chance to find a good club. And what about the equipment? Also tragic! There were two shops where you can buy fencing equipment - PBT amd Allstar. I was very lucky, because I could buy all of my gear (except the glove and the weapon) at Allstar just in time. A few months later Allstar became bankrupt in Hungary. They said that it's not worth to sell fencing equipment in Hungary, so the shop is closed for now and they left the country. I am one of their last customers I think. I feel I'm very lucky! Nowadays if a beginner wants to buy new equipment he/she can only go for PBT. There is no choice. Lot of beginners asked me where am I bought my gear, because they knew that Allstar is better than PBT and they want Allstar. They can get it only from second-hand.
What about fencing in the clubs? Well, I am very interested in sabre and foil fencing, but I can only fence epee, because there aren't any sabre/foil coaches at my club. There were some, but they left the club because of financial problems (their payment was ridiculous) and went to coaching abroad, mainly to the US.
The club's weapon master also left the club and he will go to the USA for three years. So my club have no coaches, no weapon masters. If I break a blade, I have to buy a completely new one because there is no person at the club who can repair it (in spite of the fact that only the blade needs to be replaced). Lovely, isn't it?

Kimmuriel--like slow_learner said, fencing is pretty invisible in the US.

Sounds a bit strange to me, becuase all of my club's coaches went to the US, and as far as I can see there are a lot of fencing clubs in the US. And a lot of f.net users are from the US.

OMG IT WAS FUN!
Ok, I'm starting to sound like a schoolgirl, but I really like sabre and foil. Epee--not so much. Yet. Have any of you gotten to try the other weapons?

Unfortunately, there is only epee fencing at my club. All of the foil/sabre coaches left the club because of financial problems that I described above.

[SFfencer]

<snip>

The number of fencing departments / the number of competitors in Hungary:

Mi az hogy "departments"?
nem e'rtem, klubokrol besze'lsz?

So if nothing changes fencing will extinct from Hungary sooner or later...
Oh, and one more thing! These clubs are in the capital city of Hungary, so if you live in the countryside you should choose an other sport, because you haven't got a chance to find a good club. And what about the equipment? Also tragic! There were two shops where you can buy fencing equipment - PBT amd Allstar. I was very lucky, because I could buy all of my gear (except the glove and the weapon) at Allstar just in time. A few months later Allstar became bankrupt in Hungary. They said that it's not worth to sell fencing equipment in Hungary, so the shop is closed for now and they left the country. I am one of their last customers I think. I feel I'm very lucky! Nowadays if a beginner wants to buy new equipment he/she can only go for PBT. There is no choice. Lot of beginners asked me where am I bought my gear, because they knew that Allstar is better than PBT and they want Allstar. They can get it only from second-hand.
What about fencing in the clubs? Well, I am very interested in sabre and foil fencing, but I can only fence epee, because there aren't any sabre/foil coaches at my club. There were some, but they left the club because of financial problems (their payment was ridiculous) and went to coaching abroad, mainly to the US.
The club's weapon master also left the club and he will go to the USA for three years. So my club have no coaches, no weapon masters. If I break a blade, I have to buy a completely new one because there is no person at the club who can repair it (in spite of the fact that only the blade needs to be replaced). Lovely, isn't it?

Sajna'lom hogy allstar beza'rt, ez sajnos to:rte'nik.
Itt nagyon sokan meg vannak tanitva hogy hogykel javitani a saja't cuccjait

Sounds a bit strange to me, becuase all of my club's coaches went to the US, and as far as I can see there are a lot of fencing clubs in the US. And a lot of f.net users are from the US.


Unfortunately, there is only epee fencing at my club. All of the foil/sabre coaches left the club because of financial problems that I described above.

Usa az nagy de nincs igaza'bol viva's mindenhol, nem egy ne'pszeru: sport.
Gondolna'm hogy to:bb pe'nzt lehet keresni Usa-ban mint Magyarorsza'gon e's hogy aze'rt mentek el.

viszlát!
Sándor

[Kimmuriel]

Mi az hogy "departments"?
nem e'rtem, klubokrol besze'lsz?

Sorry, my English is no so good, I don't know the right English translation for the Hungarian expression called "szakosztályok".

Anyway, are you from Hungary and live in the US? I am surprised!

[ApAperture]

God No. I don't think my club even offers sabre.

I can't believe you guys don't like epee!! well, I guess it's different watching it than playing. I love watching how a guy can get a touch by plain touching the toe. ultra cool! and... ultra hard.

[slow_learner]

Oh, I didn't say I don't like it. I plan to try it ASAP. In fact I may have little choice, since it seems to be the premiere weapon at my club.

[greaterthangatsby]

I can't believe you guys don't like epee!! well, I guess it's different watching it than playing. I love watching how a guy can get a touch by plain touching the toe. ultra cool! and... ultra hard.

I dislike the big actions in epee. It is definitely a strongperson event--and some moves look like arm-wrestling. However, one day, I will probably like epee as much as I like sabre and foil.

[slow_learner]

Sadly, I have to say that the status of fencing in Hungary is quite tragic. Everything is about money and competitions, and noone cares about amateur fencing. ...
...
The number of fencing departments / the number of competitors in Hungary:

In 1952: 218/11000
In 1972: 92/5800
In 1992: 53/3600
In 2005: 62/2400

So if nothing changes fencing will extinct from Hungary sooner or later...
...

Kimmuriel, thanks for the great reply.

Wow. I had no idea. I have been reading up on the history of the sport and in the annals of fencing Hungary certainly has a place of honor.

They will be sorry if it all becomes money driven. I live in Canada and lots of people want their kids to become NHL players and make a fortune, but the game we love is still available to everybody. You find families playing on ponds and backyard rinks, and middle-aged men playing in amateur leagues where they happily indulge their childhood fantasies. Elitist we ain't.

Somebody should write a book on fencing culture, past and present, in various countries. Maybe that Richard Cohen could give it a shot?

[greaterthangatsby]

RE: Fencing in Hungary

I think there is an ebb and flow to all sports. While slow_learner has pointed out that hockey is still at a high in Canada, some sports, even in "powerhouse" nations tend to start losing popularity after enjoying a big boom in notoriety. Ten years ago, a large city like Los Angeles had eight rinks for figure skating alone. We "banished" the hockey players to their own rinks, for the most part (this is due to size; hockey rinks are smaller). Now, we have less than half that, and many skaters who started out ten years ago have quit. Sure, it still enjoys a good amount of members in the US, but not what we used to have. Kinda like fencing in Hungary. I am hopeful that one day, fencing in Hungary will take off again. My coach trained there, and if I ever have enough money, I might spend a month fencing there--if not Italy.

RE: My lesson today

My coach decided to throw advances to the disengages. Boy was all of that tiring! I found that towards the end of the lesson, my feet were finally doing their own thing! I could move without having to tell my feet where to plant themselves, and how to space themselves out. And I am glad I practiced 100 lunges before my lesson today--I was actually lunging, for once.

I had an open bout after the lesson, which went a LOT better because I had had my lesson. I was thinking about my actions more--and not just telling my feet and telling myself not to be afraid of the more advanced fencer.

[slow_learner]

Actually my analogy was poor. Hockey is a grass-roots sport in Canada. A pond freezes, and all you need is skates, sticks, and a puck, and you have a fun fun afternoon. This has been going on for a over hundred years.

There is nothing grass-roots about ANY ice sport in LA lol. I mean, it's a city in the desert, right?

And fencing is not really grass-roots anywhere, except maybe the palace at Versailles.

Interesting that there was a competitive skating boom in LA. What caused it?

BTW: I heard years ago that LA is one of the largest Canadian cities, in terms of population--i.e. the number of Canadians living there.

[slow_learner]

Our second-last. Only six people showed. I have been trying to guess who would stick to the end. It's not the people I thought it would be. Just shows: you never can tell... Interestingly, one pair is married, the other may be a couple. Not sure. Either way, shows the benefits of the buddy system. In the original group of 22 or so, these were the only people who did not come into this alone. The only other survivor besides me is a teen age girl, who is quiet but quite competent and determined.

The lead instructor was back and we covered...electric fencing! This was not in the course description so I was surprised. He showed us all the equipment and set up, and then the two instructors bouted, pausing after each point to grill us on what happened, who scored or didn't score and why, and how this related to the lights that went off. OMG what a pain! I am having a hard enough time getting my moves right in attacking. But if he was trying to make the point that priority is very complicated and the electrics don't simplify things much, he succeeded.

In the second half hour we suited up with the electrics and geez it was fun. So very satisfying to set off the red light and know that you probably (99%?) did a legal hit. First time handling an electric foil. I love the little button at the end of it. I like mechanical things and if possible I think I will learn armory.

I got to do two bouts and won 5-1 and 5-0. But when standing off he mercilessly made us play assistant ref and at the end of each point quickly describe what happened. So I dithered like a dork. "Well, um, she attacked and he parried, and um um, she parried his riposte but then she hit his arm and um...the white light um..." And then he cuts you off and summarizes the whole thing in six words and gives the touch to the other person than you thought got it. Yeah, I'll be ready to ref a bout... in about seven years.

[Kimmuriel]

I like mechanical things and if possible I think I will learn armory.

I am also planning to learn armory, especially because our club is lack of weapon masters. I really want to build my own weapon. I am interested in french grip epee and epee with Zivkovic grip (especially Zivkovic Z Handle). It would be fun to make them by myself! Sadly, I cannot buy Zivkovic grips in Hungary. Oh, and I don't know who will teach me armory...