50+ fencers in a club, 4 strips. How do they fit?

[larkmaj]

The title sums it up pretty well, but here's the dilemma:

We are a club sport at RPI. In the past we had maybe 30 fencers show up regularly (on a good night). Our facilities are not very large, we have 3 strips, 4 if there is no group lesson. These accommodations are barely adequate on a good night, which have become more frequent over the past year.

Now comes a new year, and new fencers. After a week and a half of practices (3 practices), we already have over 50 members that have paid their dues for the year. I can easily see that number exceed 60, maybe even 70 within the next week or 2.

I would love to be able to keep as many of these fencers coming on a regular basis. The last thing I want is for people to quit because they are simply too bored. So how do I keep this many people engaged in activity as possible given limited space?

I should note that there are a few locations suitable for drills that are not suitable for strips. We have 2 practices a week, Tuesday and Thursday 8-10. Also, while we have a small storage area suitable as an armory with a workbench, the floor is a shared space. We do have 3 of the strips painted on the floor, and the 4th is occasionally on a carpet strip we roll out.

I would appreciate any ideas and suggestions you guys may have.

[noodle]

The title sums it up pretty well, but here's the dilemma:

We are a club sport at RPI. In the past we had maybe 30 fencers show up regularly (on a good night). Our facilities are not very large, we have 3 strips, 4 if there is no group lesson. These accommodations are barely adequate on a good night, which have become more frequent over the past year.

Now comes a new year, and new fencers. After a week and a half of practices (3 practices), we already have over 50 members that have paid their dues for the year. I can easily see that number exceed 60, maybe even 70 within the next week or 2.

I would love to be able to keep as many of these fencers coming on a regular basis. The last thing I want is for people to quit because they are simply too bored. So how do I keep this many people engaged in activity as possible given limited space?

I should note that there are a few locations suitable for drills that are not suitable for strips. We have 2 practices a week, Tuesday and Thursday 8-10. Also, while we have a small storage area suitable as an armory with a workbench, the floor is a shared space. We do have 3 of the strips painted on the floor, and the 4th is occasionally on a carpet strip we roll out.

I would appreciate any ideas and suggestions you guys may have.

your story is missing information. why is there a space issue? is the room(s) that you practice in too small or only large enough for 4 strips, or that the rooms are too small for 50 people? are you saying that because you only have 4 strips, there's a problem with 50 people? or what?

[larkmaj]

I am struggling to come up with methods to keep all these people engaged. Right now our practices primarily consists of open fencing, 5 touch bouts. You ref 1 bout, fence 2. Worked great when we had 5 or 6 people max per strip, now there's far too many idle fencers while we have 3 strips fencing. On top of that we barely have enough room for the beginners' group lesson in the space for the potential 4th strip, and they're just doing footwork right now.

Part of what I'm looking for is some ideas to structure practice more. My main goal is to reduce the number of idle fencers given a limited space.

I realize I'm having trouble explaining my dilemma, so if there is need for more clarification I'll be happy to try and remedy that.

[MPL]

How does a group lesson only take the space of one strip? It sounds like you have many beginners, and I'm having trouble imagining them all doing footwork on a space that is only big enough for one strip.

[noodle]

I am struggling to come up with methods to keep all these people engaged. Right now our practices primarily consists of open fencing, 5 touch bouts. You ref 1 bout, fence 2. Worked great when we had 5 or 6 people max per strip, now there's far too many idle fencers while we have 3 strips fencing. On top of that we barely have enough room for the beginners' group lesson in the space for the potential 4th strip, and they're just doing footwork right now.

Part of what I'm looking for is some ideas to structure practice more. My main goal is to reduce the number of idle fencers given a limited space.

I realize I'm having trouble explaining my dilemma, so if there is need for more clarification I'll be happy to try and remedy that.

so, you don't do athletic training, footwork or drilling?

and you're saying that your room is only big enough to fit 4 strips total, and that is all?

[Dan H]

Can you use the room on other nights, as well? If so, one obvious solution is to split the class (along weapons, or beginner/advanced) into two groups. If the space is booked so that you can't do that, you might want to go talk to someone in RPI's athletics administration, or student activities office. For college clubs, having a lot of active, dues-paying members sometimes gives your club a little bit of pull with these people, if you're lucky. You might be able to get half of a gym for a couple hours on a weekend, or somesuch.

[larkmaj]

How does a group lesson only take the space of one strip? It sounds like you have many beginners, and I'm having trouble imagining them all doing footwork on a space that is only big enough for one strip.

The space is much wider than is necessary for a single strip, but we cannot put more than one there, and then there is really no room for anything else.

so, you don't do athletic training, footwork or drilling?

We do not. While our coach is excellent in private lessons, he is not very proficient when it comes to those sort of things. We are trying to work out a Wednesday night training session for athletic training and possibly some footwork if we can secure a room for that.

I realize there are a lot of resources, many on this site, for drills and the like, but I am looking for ideas on how to structure practice in order to maximize the engagement of fencers. Ideas on how to break up into groups, drills that might work in certain situations... If it greatly aides in discussion, I can see about trying to present a better picture of our practice space.

[larkmaj]

Can you use the room on other nights, as well? If so, one obvious solution is to split the class (along weapons, or beginner/advanced) into two groups. If the space is booked so that you can't do that, you might want to go talk to someone in RPI's athletics administration, or student activities office. For college clubs, having a lot of active, dues-paying members sometimes gives your club a little bit of pull with these people, if you're lucky. You might be able to get half of a gym for a couple hours on a weekend, or somesuch.

Trying to get more practice time/space is becoming an annual event. However, with the much higher numbers this year I have slightly more hope that we may be able to do something. I am already making preparations to present an argument to get more money due to our high numbers, I hope I can apply these arguments for more space. In the meantime I have little space, and lots of fencers I don't want to lose.

[jjefferies]

Trying to get more practice time/space is becoming an annual event. However, with the much higher numbers this year I have slightly more hope that we may be able to do something. I am already making preparations to present an argument to get more money due to our high numbers, I hope I can apply these arguments for more space. In the meantime I have little space, and lots of fencers I don't want to lose.

Well, You've got a happy situation. More fencers than you can handle. As has been suggested and you've probably already started thinking about is looking for more space. You haven't mentioned your fees which is a determining factor and if your space is dedicated to just fencing.

But regarding the number of fencers vs number of strips consider doing teams. One strip can handle 6 fencers. Of course they are five touch bouts and it takes the same amount of time. But it serves to keep the fencers engaged. In the same manner pool bouts might also work. But in the end it comes down to bodies in so much space for so much time.

[InFerrumVeritas]

Here's somthing that happened the club I had been at for 4 years, only on a smaller scale, actually.

One thing you can do is to make one day the "lesson day" and the other for open fencing. The space should be adequate enough to run two lessons (a beginner and an advanced) as well as give 15 min private lessons to some people (the "fourth strip" area is used for the beginner, the "third and second" strips for advanced lessons, and the "first strip," a smaller area, for private lessons, allowing for 8 private lessons for those beyond the advanced class a week).

On the other day, you would then run open fencing, which with four strips you should have enough room for fencers, director, and person on deck. Any additional area can be used for those not in one of the four positions to do drills.

I don't know if this would work, and the specifics may be off for your space and group, but it's a start on the structure thing.

[Grasshopper]

You could do 3X3 matches, like in basketball.

[Phrogger]

We have many of the same space challenges as you. Finding space is always a challenge. Right now we have two small rooms, and two days of practice. One where we are teaching an absolute beginners class, and the other for intermediate foil and epee. In the intermediate room we run warmup, footwork, and drills together, then split up into two strips for free fencing (lengthwise), and one smaller space for drills (crosswise). We rotate people about every 5 minutes. In the past we have structured our two days of practice like this: Beginners two days a week in one room, epee in the other room on Mondays and sabre in the other room on Wednesdays.

If moving the club wholesale to another location is not an option, have you considered using a second location? We found a church with a large gymnasium that they let us use for free (we are a not for profit club) when we need it. For example you might have an additional day of practice at this other location.

[Redblade]

It's an enclosed building, right? So you've got a roof. Use it. That's at least four more strips.

[Patrician]

Well you obviously need to offer the 50 somewhat ppl to be able to practice more than twice a week. If you've got 50 ppl on two evenings you should hire someone that could cover atleast two more evenings. Mondays, tuesdays, wednesdays, thursdays. You do two nights and the other guys does the other two.

[FoilyDeath]

Inverting your pistes? If you have 4 14m pistes, trying swapping them sideways and getting 8 or so 10m pistes instead.

[noodle]

The space is much wider than is necessary for a single strip, but we cannot put more than one there, and then there is really no room for anything else.

again, i don't think this actually answers my question.

how big is your space?

We do not. While our coach is excellent in private lessons, he is not very proficient when it comes to those sort of things. We are trying to work out a Wednesday night training session for athletic training and possibly some footwork if we can secure a room for that.

I realize there are a lot of resources, many on this site, for drills and the like, but I am looking for ideas on how to structure practice in order to maximize the engagement of fencers. Ideas on how to break up into groups, drills that might work in certain situations... If it greatly aides in discussion, I can see about trying to present a better picture of our practice space.

for reference, i was in charge of a collegiate club that peaked around 75 members while i was there. we only had, at most, 2 working strips. practiced 4 days a week for 2 hours each.

if you can't figure out how to engage people with fencing, you're doing it wrong. there's tons of information on how to train athletically and to teach and drill the concepts of fencing. "engagement of fencers" does not equate to "fence on the box", and without actual training, none of your fencers will get better or understand the game better.

[BlackRoseFencer]

Something you might want to consider purchasing: wrist strips. I think we got ours from Zikov (or however you spell it)...

First of all, they're really awesome. Secondly, they allow you to have bouts without the need for a lot of equipment. You just plug the strip into the blade and BAM! You're ready to fence! You don't even need a body cord or lame. This might be another two or three strips to add to your room. You could even go out in the hall way or fence outside with them. My school had a fair for all the student organizations on campus to get together and advertise their services. So, some members of my club used the wrist strips to fence all over the place!

Our club usually has the same dilemma as you...at least in the beginning of the year. Then, homework gets to be too much and the numbers start to dwindle. We used to do lessons in shifts. A third of the people would go with one officer, another third with another officer, etc. Each group did different things...sometimes conditioning drills, bladework, footwork, etc. Then, after a certain amount of time, you rotate groups. You could modify this method a bit. Take some of the group to do conditioning, some of the group can work on drills and some of the group can free fence. Then, you just rotate. Everyone is busy and everyone, eventually, gets a turn on the strips!

[fencerbill]

If the coach does mostly lessons then have someone else responsible for the conditioning, footwork and drills. Your more experienced (I realize that may be a very relative thing) fencers can help the real noobies ramp up.

Use your imagination to get beyond the times and places where the coach is available. Build on the more advanced working with the less advanced. Search f.net for fencing games and drills that the noobies can benefit from.

Why are you limited to only that room at only those times? Do the athletic facilities have any other spaces that have free time? Use hallways for the drills? Let the coach give lessons in the hallways.

Think outside the box. There is a rumor that RPI is full of engineers. Are you using your engineering education and training to creatively attack your space shortage.

Look at this like it's an engineering problem.

[AndrewH]

This is a very simple economics problem. When demand exceeds supply, raise the price until they're equal again.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

This is a very simple economics problem. When demand exceeds supply, raise the price until they're equal again.

That would work if university fencing clubs were businesses.

I'm just curious how the club has acquired members so quickly.