Tips for angulation / not hitting flat?

[Cookeit]

Hey,

I needed to take the summer off of fencing to work a full-time job (1:45-10pm..). I've been fencing the past two weeks and things are progressing nicely, I seem to be getting right on track.

However, I am having a lot of trouble with going flat on my lunges/fleches.
Sure, it seemed to happen alot more when my opponent was wearing a chest protector.. but it happened on other people too.

Any drills I could do other than simple parry-riposte with emphasizing the angulation?

[Foil.Leicester]

Are you finding your blade going flat on regular attacks or more when someone's counter-attacking you? Also, is it on a parry riposte or direct attack? Could be different problems depending on where you feel the problem is

[peet]

Originally Posted by Cookeit

Hey,

I needed to take the summer off of fencing to work a full-time job (1:45-10pm..). I've been fencing the past two weeks and things are progressing nicely, I seem to be getting right on track.

However, I am having a lot of trouble with going flat on my lunges/fleches.
Sure, it seemed to happen alot more when my opponent was wearing a chest protector.. but it happened on other people too.

Any drills I could do other than simple parry-riposte with emphasizing the angulation?

In my experience, this is rarely a matter of angulation or other point control issues. It's almost always a matter of timing the hand vs the foot. It's usually because the feet got ahead of the hand, closing distance before the last hand action was on target.

That is to say: if your hand is not yet done with the preparation (there's almost always some disengage, beat, or other preparation), so it has not yet gotten the point on target at the time your lunge or fleche closes the distance to hit, your tip comes down flat.

Just try accelerating the hand actions a bit more than the foot actions, and I bet you'll hit more reliably.

I hate it when the answer is so simple yet so complicated, but this really is one of those "hand before foot" things.

HTH

-p

[Cookeit]

Originally Posted by Foil.Leicester

Are you finding your blade going flat on regular attacks or more when someone's counter-attacking you? Also, is it on a parry riposte or direct attack? Could be different problems depending on where you feel the problem is

1) It's happening mostly after I make a parry, then march them down the strip.
I then miss and they get a counterattack light on.

2) Since it's during the march, not a fluid parry-riposte, I would say it's a direct attack.

[Allen Evans]

1. You are crushing the space too soon.
2. Your hand isn't ahead of your foot.
3. You are rolling/punching/thrusting from your shoulder instead of reaching with your fingers/tip.
4. Your tip is too high during the march, and not coming down fast enough before you start your attack.
5. Your opponent is stepping in or taking some other action to to MAKE you flat because you are telegraphing the start of your final action.
6. Your hip is popping up/twisting during the lunge because you aren't lunging from a properly loaded leg. This is twisting the torso, dropping the shoulder or both, causing you to miss.
7. You are lunging too far and too hard in the finish.

Possibly all of the above.

Allen Evans

[Cookeit]

Originally Posted by Allen Evans

1. You are crushing the space too soon.
2. Your hand isn't ahead of your foot.
3. You are rolling/punching/thrusting from your shoulder instead of reaching with your fingers/tip.
4. Your tip is too high during the march, and not coming down fast enough before you start your attack.
5. Your opponent is stepping in or taking some other action to to MAKE you flat because you are telegraphing the start of your final action.
6. Your hip is popping up/twisting during the lunge because you aren't lunging from a properly loaded leg. This is twisting the torso, dropping the shoulder or both, causing you to miss.
7. You are lunging too far and too hard in the finish.

Possibly all of the above.

Allen Evans

A mix of 3,4,5, and 6.

Thanks for pinpointing things that could be going wrong.
I'll try and focus on these.

[daveappr]

Originally Posted by Allen Evans

1. You are crushing the space too soon.
2. Your hand isn't ahead of your foot.
3. You are rolling/punching/thrusting from your shoulder instead of reaching with your fingers/tip.
4. Your tip is too high during the march, and not coming down fast enough before you start your attack.
5. Your opponent is stepping in or taking some other action to to MAKE you flat because you are telegraphing the start of your final action.
6. Your hip is popping up/twisting during the lunge because you aren't lunging from a properly loaded leg. This is twisting the torso, dropping the shoulder or both, causing you to miss.
7. You are lunging too far and too hard in the finish.

Possibly all of the above.

Allen Evans

I am going to print this out, give it to my wife & when we go to tournaments hand it to her and say read this to me when I say- "what was I doing wrong.." possibly one of the most comprehensive answers to an open ended question I've seen in ages.

[crquack]

Hard to follow expert advice, but I had the same problem. The coach, once I found one, was most insistent on me *not angling* but hitting straight with attention to all that has already been said.

Took me a while to get rid of bad habits (not completely) but I am now able to see them in others and capitalize on it.

[Allen Evans]

Originally Posted by daveappr

I am going to print this out, give it to my wife & when we go to tournaments hand it to her and say read this to me when I say- "what was I doing wrong.." possibly one of the most comprehensive answers to an open ended question I've seen in ages.

Just let me know where to send the bill....

[Meteoric Iron]

Originally Posted by daveappr

I am going to print this out, ... possibly one of the most comprehensive answers to an open ended question I've seen in ages.

For what your advice has been worth to me, you should get direct deposit...

[thekoby]

Originally Posted by daveappr

I am going to print this out, give it to my wife & when we go to tournaments hand it to her and say read this to me when I say- "what was I doing wrong.." possibly one of the most comprehensive answers to an open ended question I've seen in ages.

Agreed!! That post will be very helpful my left-handed foil student who has a problem with hitting flat...I see a lot of those issues now that Allen pointed them out.