Parent support of fencer at tournament

[Rambler]

My 10 year old will be in his first serious tournament this month and I am interested in finding out what other parents do to support their kids during the bouts. I don't mean the encouragement, etc. part that to me is an assumed critical part. I mean how much do you pay attention to the action; take notes; videotape.

His coach told all the kids they should begin keeping a journal of their tournaments and how they did, what worked, what did'n't, etc. I really can see how capturing this information helps in development as well as builds a profile about each competitor so that you can store it for later use.

But at 10yo, their ability to do much of this is limited. I suspect they have their hands full just keeping up with where they need to be.

My thought is that it is easier and better for a parent to take notes for the child to let them know what occurred. Or better yet, videotape the bouts and have the tape to replay and watch in more detail.

Is this normal and allowed in tournaments? Should I just focus on taping each of his bouts and then review the tape later if he wants?

Is there a basic one page template of things your should note from a bout? Not being a fencer, I don't know what this might be so it is hard.

What do you all suggest?

Rambler

[HookUpandFence]

Video taping is about the only thing mine wants me to do.
Anything I say or whatever during the tournament is a distraction for him, he says. He does not even want me to cheer or anything.
Our coach says his daughter is the same way with him. So sometimes we swap. I will coach her and Coach will coach my son.
Mostly, I sit on the sidelines and bite my nails.
it is best when we are in tournaments together and I am busy with my events so I do not dwell on his.
Then Mom has to bite her nails... twice as much.

[TBean]

It entirely depends on your child - some want and like support and cheering, others wish you were in another state. Take your lead from the kids - see what your son wants.

Videotaping is a good idea. Also, keeping score that way at the end of the pool you have another verification that the pool sheet is correct. Make sure he has things to eat and drink with him at his pool, if the time is right remind him to take a sip or a bite of something. Make sure he eats after his pool. If you can, get him to write down about his bouts. Help him by writing down all the names of the kids in his pool to help jog his memory.

This will be a learning process for you both. Encourage independence and that he learns what needs to happen in terms of preparing and dealing with a tournament. Be on hand to support but try not to do everything for him.

[journalmom]

I have two kids, 13 and 16 y.o., who demand different things. The older one is a boy who discretely told me when he was 13 that he didn't want me to help him open the Gatorade bottle or wipe the sweat off of his face. But he wanted me to keep the score in his fencing journal (sold here on f.net the Fencing Journal )

On the other hand, my 13 y.o. daughter wants me to stay around the strip at all times. She's a little better now but she used to get nervous if she didn't see me around the strip. She also wants me to keep score.

Both want me to keep score because since they are so involved in their fencing that they can't remember the scores sometimes and when they check their score sheet at the end of their POOL, they don't know if the score sheet they are signing is correct or not. Also, the journal mentioned above has sections that a 10 y.o. can answer so that he/she knows what to remember about the experience.

Always keep extra weapons and body cords in your hand so that you can quickly help out if there's equipment malfunction. Videotaping also makes you keep somewhat quiet and not distract your child or offend anyone, for that matter. Remember your voice is being recorded. Leave the coaching to the coach. That's always off limits to the parents unless you are a fencer yourself...even if you are, I heard one fencing mother say that she doesn't coach her son because "I don't want to hear him say I gave him wrong advice and he lost."

At 10 years old, you can be the shoulder to cry on, voice of comfort and support, ATM for food and snack, and a pack mule at tournaments.

But be prepared....even if you do exactly what he/she wants you to do, sometimes, you can be blamed for doing all the wrong things. Emotional fencers, especially when they lose, are irrational....especially at age 10.

[Rambler]

Thanks for the replies.
I will charge up the video camera then and make sure we are ready. I may ask my wife or his sister to keep score and list the names of who he fights.

Journal Mom, do you have a copy of what your Journal entries look like? Not the cover, but an idea of the things in the book? I can show it to my son and see if he wants to buy one of the Journals.

Thanks.
Rambler

[journalmom]

I don't have pages that I can send you but Craig has a pretty good description of what's inside. After each bout, whether the POOLs for DE, there are prompted questions that a fencer can answer to remember about the bout later on.

Some of the questions after the POOL....
Hardest bout & why:
Favorite bout and why:
Memorable touch and technique:
I need improvement on:

Some of the questions after a DE bout...
How I lost a touch:
What I learned about the fencer:

These questions are on each of the pages so that the fencer can jot it down before leaving the premises. Kids forget what happened as soon as they get in the car.
The book is about 5 1/2" X 8" and has 233 pages.

[bbugiii]

As mentioned above - I keep score during pools so that my son has a seperate record to check against the pool sheet. We have our own journal page that he and his coach developed - it has some of the questions above - but also has him rate himself on a 10 point scale about various things like metal focus... this has helped him a good bit.

A trick I have learned is to take a digital picture of the pool assignment and DE bracket when they are posted. At a larger tournament this lets you get the information you need quickly and back out of the crowd. You can pull up the photo to view it anytime and see who is in the pool (to fill out your score sheet) - or who is in their section of the DE bracket.

We video as well for review with coach later.

Best to ask your son how much cheering, etc he wants from you. As you can see from the responses above - every one is different.

Most of all enjoy - stay positive and encouraging. Remember we are the parent and not the coach.

Bbugii's mom

[Fencing Mom]

Since your fencer is ten years old I would suggest you do nothing but be there. Cheer and then find out if your son appreciated it. If he did, continue, if not, cheer quietly to yourself. He might not even notice whether you cheer or not.

There is plenty of time for all those other things. If you videotape, take notes, coach, etc, your son will get the idea that fencing is very serious business. At ten, the most important thing is for him to discover that fencing is fun. If it is serious business, he'll quit in a few short years. If you allow it to be fun, you may witness the birth of a lifelong passion.

There are so many reasons for kids in the US not to fence. Don't add to it - my humble opinion.

[occasionalfencer]

Let your kid fence. Sit close by, use your time to meet the other parents, especially the parents of the kid your kid is fencing. If your kid keeps on fencing, some of these people you are going to see a lot of in the upcoming years, and it is a good idea to make friends with them. Ask them questions- they might know things you don't. Or answer questions- you might know something they don't. They fencing world is small enough to be cosy, and in a year or two, or five, you can build up a lot of good will. Or not.

[Allen Evans]

I might start out by arguing that 10 year old fencers don't have "serious tournaments". After all, he's TEN. I can't remember doing anything "seriously" when I was ten. Hmmm...except perhaps watching "Johnny Quest". But that's a different thread.

I encourage all of my fencers, no matter how old, to write, whether it's in a journal or on the computer. One, it's a great place to have children practice an important skill, without letting them know that they're practicing an important skill. Second, it's a good way to start training the child to be reflective and thoughtful about a process that they are personally engaged in.

I also think that fencing tournaments and venues are a great place to have children begin to practice self reliance. The atmosphere is predictable, (mostly) controlled, and the tasks are relatively simple (getting gear checked, finding their strip, and so forth). Since I assume from your post that fencing is his thing, it's a good venue for him to practice taking care of himself. The less you can do for him, and the more you can teach him to do for himself, the better.

I'm not sure why anyone would video tape bouts for very young fencers, except as a historical record, in order to pass along to the coach to guide future lessons, or for the enjoyment of grand parents. At this age, children are fencing in a technical environment (how they perform an action is almost as important as what action they perform) and video taping technical actions for a fencer at this age while in a competition is going to have limited utility. Remember, this is a child, not an adult, and "going to tape" is probably going to be of very limited effectiveness.

Allen Evans

[rory]

I might start out by arguing that 10 year old fencers don't have "serious tournaments". After all, he's TEN.

Absolutely.
I knew a lot of fencers whose parents pushed them when they were very young. Many of them became age group champions etc.

None of the ones I grew up with who were pushed so early are still fencing, they all dropped out by about 20.

[Rambler]

These are all good points.

It is probably best to just relax and take it easy. He enjoys fencing and I have seen more competitiveness and aggressiveness come from him in this sport than ever before, which is good. He tends to lack assertiveness in other situations.

Fencing for our family is all new. New terminology, new equipment, new expectations. From what I can tell in our part of the world it is also a more informal environment, which at times makes it harder to know what to do.

He is in a beginner's class, so most of the parents are all in the same boat, and there are not any "veterans" to turn to to ask questions. I am sure that once he moves up to the next level, there will be a better cadre of famillies that will set the expectations.

His coach is very good about answering questions and keeping the parents informed to the purpose of drills and most future activities.

I just have to remember that at this age, let him have fun.

Rambler

[Mac A. Bee]

...Both want me to keep score because since they are so involved in their fencing that they can't remember the scores sometimes and when they check their score sheet at the end of their POOL, they don't know if the score sheet they are signing is correct or not...keep extra weapons and body cords in your hand so that you can quickly help out if there's equipment malfunction.

It's your fencers' responsibility to score-check at each bout's end. Once they unhook the score stands, unless their opponent concurs - and even then...Referees do not accept parents' scoresheets. It's also your fencers' responsibility to bring two blades, two body cords and if saber, two head cords to the strip. Not having same upon malfunction yields a Group I card. If they have a Yellow card, it's a touch against them. It's a good practice for them to put these items near their reel upon hooking up, so that they don't forget it after unhooking.

I recommend you take a step further and learn, with your fencers, equipment repair and maintenance. That way, they can check their equipment on tournament's eve and repair it after but you'll be equipped for on-the-spot help.

[DonnaP]

If it's his first big event - I suspect it may be yours as well. As a parent, this is our sixth season and here are some of the things I remember...
1. There is often a lot going on and the large environment can be overwhelming. Be there early for check in and have plenty of time for changing into gear, warm-ups, rest after warm-ups. Be sure he stretches. This all helps burn off adrenaline that builds with anxiety and decreases not only jitters, but helps prevent injury. Depending on how big the event is, you may need to bring birthyear verification, and may need to do a weapons check - meaning standing in line and having your equipment checked before the tournament. Lames (if you use one), body cords, head cords (if you use one), masks, gloves (if electric).
2. Remember fluids - much more important than video-taping at this point. Fluids before, during and after. Sipping is better than guzzling.
3. Have easy to eat snacks, bananas, grapes, etc. Everyone has a favorite, my son preferred things that were wet as his mouth was often dry, and he was queasy from nerves.
4. You have to stay calm and reinforce that this is "fun". I have seen too many parents get too caught up in the moment and just become crazed maniacs.
5. Even now, we video tape for the review and experience afterwards, but I find it very hard and distracting to video and watch. We now use a tripod if possible (can't always get a good view) so I am free to watch the action. Also, my son preferred not to know he was being videotaped and so I had to tape him from behind. Remember - NO flash photography! (unless it's of your child on the medal stand!)
6. My husband or I always take care of carrying the spare equipment and being stripside with it. Eventually the fencer needs to do this themselves, but at age 10, trust me, things get put down and lost. (label EVERYTHING!!). We, the parents, were also the ones checking to see what strip to go to (the bout will go on without you so you can't dilly dally) and getting him there with all of his stuff. (spare blade, spare head and body cords). At 10, parents are also often needed to help hook up the child as they can be nervous and shaking fingers have a hard time with the clips.
7. You definitely want to have a pen and paper handy. Keep track of the score for each bout. Have your child check the score sheet after each bout - though directors don't usually want fencers huddling around the bout sheet for too long and slowing down the process. We have had many, many situations where the directors lost count of the score (if the boxes don't have the score on them) or wrote the results in the wrong boxes on the score sheets - usually by reversing them. Once the score sheet is signed by the fencer - it is FINAL. You cannot go back later. The journal is nice, we have one, but for years we used just a small pocket sized notepad that worked just fine. Our son often didn't want to do the journal stuff right away after the bout - especially after a loss.
8. Be prepared for tears - at 10 and even much older, losses can be very hard on fencers and the emotions can run quite high. Some kids need a hug right there, others need to walk it off - you need to follow your childs lead.
9. Remember that as a parent you have no authority or rights to anything. Only the fencer can interact with the director or ask for anything (certainly you can coach the child in this sense) though with the young kids, directors are usually more lenient. And know that yelling at the director is not acceptable behavior - this isn't baseball - you can't yell things at or intimidate the director.
10. If there are other events (older age groups) going on - it can be fun to just go and watch some of the older kids and see the skill level and watch the directors. It can motivate the younger child and helps both your and your son to learn the sport better.

Personally, if it's your first "big" event, I would maybe bring the video gear, but be there for the kid. If he loves the sport, you will have many opportunities to video tape him. Learn the ropes of being a parent at the event and learn the sport. Cheer for your son and go out for ice cream afterwards!! Enjoy and have a great time!!

[Rambler]

Fortunately for us, this is a tournament at his club, so I do not know how many kids will be competing. He started in June and late July they had a small tournament in the club for after Nationals. He had only been fencing about 3 weeks, but he wanted to go to the tournament. Only one other boy was there his age. The coach stressed not to be disapointed; that he probably would not even win a point, because the other boy had been fencing for a few years.
In the end he got three points, and walked away with a silver medal. Granted second out of two is not anything to crow about, but man was he proud of that medal!

So now he hopes to really compete. I think it will be easier for him because he has a better sense of how everything works now. I may just bring the video camera on a stand and set it up to just run during his bouts. Then be there to watch and help.

Afterwards we have to head straight off to a Cub scout campout, so we will have plenty of time in the car to discuss how things have gone.

Rambler

[TBean]

Oh, this is a local tournament - I was thinking a youth large regional or NAC. Really, don't break out the the video camera for this one - especially his first tournament - just go and be a support for him and let him have fun. In the scheme of things, a much better choice, especially since you don't know what the turnout will be. As he gains more experience with the atmosphere of a tournament, implement some of the suggestions here.

For this one bring food, water, working weapons and make sure he has fun above all else. Encourage him to get in the habit of taking sips and eating small amounts between each bout. If you want something to do, learn about how a pool sheet is filled out, keep one for his pool and write down the names of all the kids he fences so you both have a reference when you talk.

[fencefoilepee]

I actually became our club armorer briefly because one of my kids (my son) seemed to just be able to LOOK at a foil, and it would go dead. I ended up having a fancy way of taping the foils so my kids could instantly recognize their stuff. I also engraved their names on the blade.

[MdA]

Here is a good reference for new parents

http://www.usfencing.org/usfa/content/view/1273/111/

I agree with Allen. At ten my kids didn't watch video too much. The oldest one watched more..it varies from kid to kid. But, they like to watch the bouts they win...don't like the bouts they lose...defeat is difficult at any age. And if they happen to win a medal...make sure you tape the awards ceremony.

Have fun...enjoy the time together...since you are a fencer...resist the urge to talk about everything they should have done...on the way home. If they ask later...try to remember a few helpful hints.

The best thing you can do as a parent is help them plan their schedule for the year. Pick competitions you will attend well in advance so they know what they are doing. Help them pack all their stuff...and fix their equipment...but don't over-do-it.

[Mo]

The best thing you can do is encourage your kid to have fun. Laugh, keep it light and don't let anything get to you.
There are a lot of clubs that have psycho parents who get all bent out of shape if your kid beats their's or even scores points on them.
Just shrug it off.
Keep in mind this is a tiny sport and in the overall scheme of things, it doesn't matter.
My fencing daughter just left for college. I can honestly say, if we had the entire fencing thing to do over, we wouldn't.
Keep it simple and in context.
The Momster

[journalmom]

Can I have the Olympic medals then?
What do you mean, "...if we had the entire fencing thing to do over, we wouldn't.?"
You are squishing dreams out there, you dream squasher!

Seriously, yeah, the best thing to do is to keep it light and simple. Don't force it.
But if you have to convince yourself not to "let anything get to you", then, there's something wrong with the picture. Don't take crap from no one. You have to know when to say "Stop!" If a kid is stressed about going to classes or tournaments, you have to know why.