Parent support of fencer at tournament

[Vestboy_Myst]

i suggest NEVER trying to run up and console them if they lose. Usually fencers (especialy Sabres) will want alone time to re-evaluate their loss.

Also idk about parents being at fencing meets at all! it pressures kids. I Hated my parents coming to my HS matches. I never yelled when i got touches and didn't let loose like I should have. It's better when only friends are there to me.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

What do you want to do? Coddle your child or let him grow up?

Do what he cannot.

Basically...

Tape his bouts.

Keep some food and water available.

Force them to confront their difficulties alone.

Nothing nauseates me more than a doting parent cupping their child's testicles so they won't ever descend.

[Mo]

Can I have the Olympic medals then?
What do you mean, "...if we had the entire fencing thing to do over, we wouldn't.?"
You are squishing dreams out there, you dream squasher!

It is good to squash dreams that are not realistic and should not even be dreams.
They are not my medals to give away however.
We could have been spending years white water rafting, camping, touring the country, looking for ancient sites in the desert and going places and learning. Instead we delt with years of BS. We could have been doing science, reading etc.
We could have done volunteer work for Habitat and stuff like that.
Fencing demands too much and gives too little in return.
The reality is not worth the dream.
The Momster

[Mo]

i suggest NEVER trying to run up and console them if they lose. Usually fencers (especialy Sabres) will want alone time to re-evaluate their loss.

Also idk about parents being at fencing meets at all! it pressures kids. I Hated my parents coming to my HS matches. I never yelled when i got touches and didn't let loose like I should have. It's better when only friends are there to me.

What a sad relationship you have with your parents. Is that the kind of relationship you want to have with your kids as a parent?
Maybe you should get to know them better.

The Momster

[fencerwallet]

Support of fencer? One word: Money. Be prepared to spend plenty of it. Money for equipment. Money for lessons. Money for club fees. Money for Membership fees. Money to travel to local tournaments. Money for entry fees. Money for airfare, hotel, transportation, and food for tournaments that require travel. Money for equipment that has to be replaced at tournaments. Money lost due to time off from work to accompany your kid. Money for coaching fees a major tournaments. Money for booze at the hotel bar when your kid has gone to sleep after a tournament and you need to slam a few. Money, money, money. Don't ask how much money. It will probably upset you.

[Phincer]

Support of fencer? One word: Money.

ROFLMAO!!! SO True!

But here, dear parents, is the silver lining to that dark portion of our little fencing cloud: they eventually leave the nest. I am the proud parent of a (now) college fencer. The last five years had us depleting the bank account on the day of or a little before each paycheck. There is a positive balance all the time now!!!

I got into huge trouble (with the coach) when I told a newbie fencing parent what it cost to keep us in fencing for one year (and we are the family that stays in the Holiday Inn as opposed to those that stayed at the Four Seasons type places). The Newb Mom was being just a wee bit pompous and saying things like "oh, I'm sure there are ways to cut costs", implying that we were spendthrifts and didn't watch our money. HA!!! I ran a spreadsheet on it. I could write a book on cost cutting measures in regards to fencing!

It's funny- you know when you start that fencing is expensive, but just how expensive is the great unknown. Once you're in, you're in. You just can't stop. It's like, sooooo addictive man...

[Mo]

ROFLMAO!!! SO True!

But here, dear parents, is the silver lining to that dark portion of our little fencing cloud: they eventually leave the nest. I am the proud parent of a (now) college fencer. The last five years had us depleting the bank account on the day of or a little before each paycheck. There is a positive balance all the time now!!!

I got into huge trouble (with the coach) when I told a newbie fencing parent what it cost to keep us in fencing for one year (and we are the family that stays in the Holiday Inn as opposed to those that stayed at the Four Seasons type places). The Newb Mom was being just a wee bit pompous and saying things like "oh, I'm sure there are ways to cut costs", implying that we were spendthrifts and didn't watch our money. HA!!! I ran a spreadsheet on it. I could write a book on cost cutting measures in regards to fencing!

It's funny- you know when you start that fencing is expensive, but just how expensive is the great unknown. Once you're in, you're in. You just can't stop. It's like, sooooo addictive man...

Yeah someone should have poured a bucket of cold water on us!!! Or funneled a lake. Since our little darling is also in college we are amazed at how long food lasts in the house.
Without her and her darling boyfriend eating often at our house, we have food!! The daughter didn't eat that much it was the BOY!! But we loved him anyway.
The international travel is over.... although we are kind of lost without having to pay all the attention to the kids, we are catching up on bills... sort of.
Phincer, write that book!!
The Momster

[dcmdale]

(sonorously) "Look at the Gold Medal... Watch it swing... to and fro... Keep your eye on the Gold... You will not notice how light your wallet feels... Keep your eye on the Gold... You will not wince when paying your credit card bill... Keep your eye on the Gold... Envision your kid on the stand... Think of all the friends you can make when living in the trailer park... Keep your eye on the Gold..."

[telkanuru]

Man, I wish I had a portable ATM again...

Oh, to be young.

[journalmom]

What do you want to do? Coddle your child or let him grow up?

Do what he cannot.

Basically...

Tape his bouts.

Keep some food and water available.

Force them to confront their difficulties alone.

Nothing nauseates me more than a doting parent cupping their child's testicles so they won't ever descend.

We are still talking about 10 year olds, aren't we?

[fencerwallet]

We are still talking about 10 year olds, aren't we?

Well, without intending any disrespect to all the wonderful mothers out there without whom their children could not function (and I sincerely don't mean this in a derogatory fashion), when I take fencing trips with my son, I:

1. Use them as an opportunity to catch up on my own sleep and relaxation, since my daily work life allows little of it;
2. See it as a chance to spend solid quality time with my son; and
2. Constantly have to tell my son when he wants me to, "do this" or "do that"... "Hey, I'm not your mother, do it yourself".

[Allen Evans]

I seem to have missed the phase in my childhood when I could get anything I wanted from my parents just by demanding it.

But then, I left the house early.

AE

[journalmom]

I seem to have missed the phase in my childhood when I could get anything I wanted from my parents just by demanding it.

AE

Don't worry, you did not miss that phase; I'm sure your smart (and loving) parents wouldn't have given you everything just because you demanded. Contrary to some opinions here, most parents don't.

But we are talking about ten year olds. Sorry to hear that fwallet needs a fencing tournament to take his vacation and to spend "quality" time with his son. May be that's why his son wants him to "do this" or "do that" - because he wants his attention. That's a whole different issue - very different from supporting your kids at a tournament. I didn't mean to sound preachy but if a kid is a sixteen years old, then, yeah, he should be able to handle a lot of things flying his way - including dealing with losing a bout - but not when you are ten and this is your "first serious tournament", as OP indicated.

[fencerwallet]

Sorry to hear that fwallet needs a fencing tournament to take his vacation and to spend "quality" time with his son. May be that's why his son wants him to "do this" or "do that" - because he wants his attention. That's a whole different issue - very different from supporting your kids at a tournament. I didn't mean to sound preachy but if a kid is a sixteen years old, then, yeah, he should be able to handle a lot of things flying his way - including dealing with losing a bout - but not when you are ten and this is your "first serious tournament", as OP indicated.

Trust me, the kid doesn't need attention. When I said, "do this" or "do that", I should have said, "can you pack up my stuff", or "can you carry my bag", or "can you get my gear together?". Nope, won't do it. Since Y10 he has checked pools himself and told me what strip he'll fence on, not the other way around.

Of course, I used to double check on him, and I do keep an eye on the cooler with gatorade (and my diet coke), but just like when people say "congratulations" to me after a tournament, I respectfully say, "for what, watching?" It's all him.

As far as my vacations.... yeah, that part is pretty pathetic. I did take a few extra days after Nationals to go to Yosemite, though.

[journalmom]

Trust me, the kid doesn't need attention. When I said, "do this" or "do that", I should have said, "can you pack up my stuff", or "can you carry my bag", or "can you get my gear together?". Nope, won't do it. Since Y10 he has checked pools himself and told me what strip he'll fence on, not the other way around.

Of course, I used to double check on him, and I do keep an eye on the cooler with gatorade (and my diet coke), but just like when people say "congratulations" to me after a tournament, I respectfully say, "for what, watching?" It's all him.

As far as my vacations.... yeah, that part is pretty pathetic. I did take a few extra days after Nationals to go to Yosemite, though.

Thanks for clarifying.....now it makes more sense. I just imagined you lounging on the sidelines, camcorder on a tripod, reading Wall Street Journal, drinking soda saying "Don't bother me kid, go fence and stop whining." So glad you are not the type.

Can't argue with going to Yosemite either.

[Rambler]

Well, this thread has gotten off on a tangent...

I thought I would share the results of the tournament that started this thread. I took the advice of being the quiet patient parent there to watch and be supportive. The older sister did the video taping and the Mom was there to make him feel loved.

He got second in his age group, so he was happy, though fencing the 14 year olds in his pool did not turn out too well. He ended up having both the finalists in the youth competition in his pool. Needless to say, he went 5-0 with them both, but it did not deter him.

When he broke down was after the DE. I guess he had been gripping his weapon so hard the entire morning that he "gripped out" and could not hold the weapon in the end. He said it kept slipping out of his hand. He started crying because his hand hurt and he had gotten eliminated.

But a little ice, some consoling, and he was fine.

I did track his scoring and kept that so he could at least check to make sure it was the correct score, but I don't think he really paid attention to what I wrote down. He just signed the form.

Maybe later this week, we will watch the video and talk about things. We did watch other "small fencer/big fencer" bouts to talk about what he could do to be successful in the future.

Now we have to determine the next tournaments to attend.

Help me here:
I know about the Regional Youth Circuit. We have one in December and I understand that by simply attending, he would qualify for Nationals.

But then there are the Super Youth Circuits that I guess have not been scheduled yet?

And then I see Sectionals, Junior Olympic Qualifiers, Division National Qualifiers, Division Championships...

What are all of these and does a beginning youth fencer need to think about them? The coach told me that he CAN NOT complete in an open event until he is 13, so I am to look only for youth events. But I don't know the difference between all these or if he will even be eligible.

Any help?

Rambler

[occasionalfencer]

At the risk of saying the obvious, the coach should know best where your son is in his fencing, and something about the quality of your local tournaments. There is a risk in competing too much too soon. The young fencer can get discouraged not just by being beaten, but by being beaten very badly. My son went to one tournament from when he started fencing at age 8, until he started competing seriously at about 13. He is now 19, and competing at a high level.

[Fencing Mom]

Maybe later this week, we will watch the video and talk about things. We did watch other "small fencer/big fencer" bouts to talk about what he could do to be successful in the future.

Now we have to determine the next tournaments to attend.

Help me here:
I know about the Regional Youth Circuit. We have one in December and I understand that by simply attending, he would qualify for Nationals.

But then there are the Super Youth Circuits that I guess have not been scheduled yet?

And then I see Sectionals, Junior Olympic Qualifiers, Division National Qualifiers, Division Championships...

What are all of these and does a beginning youth fencer need to think about them? The coach told me that he CAN NOT complete in an open event until he is 13, so I am to look only for youth events. But I don't know the difference between all these or if he will even be eligible.

Any help?

Rambler

I think you need to chill a bit here.

There’s a group called the National Youth Sports Alliance that keeps track of youth participation in sports. Now even though their survey is talking about team sports, I believe it is valid for fencing. Their statistics show that 70% of kids drop out of sports by the age of 13 and the reason most often cited is because the sport is no longer fun.

If you start thinking, talking, doing anything about Sectionals, Junior Olympics, or even Super Youth Circuits, you are taking the fun away from your kid. Let him be 10 years old. That videotape will be a warm, funny memory in five years when he can actually fence, but showing it to him now may just put pressure on him to win, win, win. Don’t do that to him.

I am 100% for parents being informed and involved in fencing – I saw too many who paid no attention to the sport. But don’t think that the fencing concerns of Mo (Olympics) or Phincer ( Div 1, NCAA) or any parent of a teenager are your concerns. You need to see that your son is in a class and club appropriate to his young, beginner level, that he doesn’t compete in a tournament over his head, and that he makes friends among fencers.

Bottom line – and this is my opinion, others may disagree – you need to be a parent, not a fencing parent. If you are lucky, all that will come later.

[Phincer]

I think you need to chill a bit here.

There’s a group called the National Youth Sports Alliance that keeps track of youth participation in sports. Now even though their survey is talking about team sports, I believe it is valid for fencing. Their statistics show that 70% of kids drop out of sports by the age of 13 and the reason most often cited is because the sport is no longer fun.

First-nice overall post.

Second (above): Not only do kids get burned out at 13 in sports they have been in for years, but also things like scouting and church activities. There's always a little bump in the road at 13 and 14 when they stretch those little wings. That's when ours went from big time scout to full-time fencer. There were many factors involved-but we knew it was a possibility, and when he flipped the mask up after his first time at fencing, we knew it was a sure thing we'd be saying good-bye to scouting.

If you start thinking, talking, doing anything about Sectionals, Junior Olympics, or even Super Youth Circuits, you are taking the fun away from your kid. Let him be 10 years old.

Very True!!! Although I would suggest that if, after the first experience at competition, the fencer likes tournaments and they are fun (you see your friends, get to fence, etc.), go ahead and sign them up for the RYC or the SYC. Just don't make a big deal about it. At this age their skills can change so much in 6 months. IF the family wants to plan on a trip to Summer Nationals, go ahead and qualify by doing the RYC/SYCs, just keep it cool.

I am 100% for parents being informed and involved in fencing – I saw too many who paid no attention to the sport. But don’t think that the fencing concerns of Mo (Olympics) or Phincer ( Div 1, NCAA) or any parent of a teenager are your concerns.

oh sooooo true!!!! But I also understand the thirst for the knowledge that this parent is feeling...you want to know everything and know it now, so you can be on top of it. I, too, am obsessive like that.

You need to see that your son is in a class and club appropriate to his young, beginner level, that he doesn’t compete in a tournament over his head, and that he makes friends among fencers.

My bold-the most important thing ever-having your pals with you doing what you all love to do. Learning to handle having to face those good buds on strip and then pulling off the mask and being a friend again. Congratulating them on their win, consoling them in their loss. The hardest bout my son ever had to fence was when he knocked out a good friend in a qualifying tournament. That doesn't mean you have to limit yourself to just fencers as friends! (Had to add that b/c I could hear the replies being posted as I typed)

Bottom line – and this is my opinion, others may disagree – you need to be a parent, not a fencing parent. If you are lucky, all that will come later.

Amen, sister(?)friend.

And now...

At the risk of saying the obvious, the coach should know best where your son is in his fencing, and something about the quality of your local tournaments.

If you have a coach that keeps up with that sort of thing. I've had personal experience with a coach that never did any of that. Couldn't tell you what local/regional tournaments were good to go to. If he had shown up at a local/regional he couldn't give any strategic advice b/c he never went to any tournaments and hadn't taken the time to see how other fencers fenced.

Parents are their children's best advocates. An informed parent (who has a coach that does NOT take an interest in their fencers and offer decent advice regarding their competitive career or training) can often make better choices regarding their child. The whole trick is knowing which coach you have: an informed, caring coach who actually takes his job seriously or the 'coach' that in reality is just a Fee Collector.

New Parents, don't panic. Ninety per cent of coaches out there are just fine and doing it for all the right reasons and doing a great job. There are always a few bad apples in every barrel. If your kid is happy, having fun and his/her skills are improving, then that's all that matters.

[Rambler]

I appreciate the concern about being over enthusiastic shared by many of you. It appears my questions maybe are being mis-interpreted.

First, I am trying to learn as much as possible about this new sport to my family so that my son does make this a lifelong pursuit and does not get burned out. This forum for me is an excellent way to get an education from people that understand the structure, demands, and benefits of fencing.

As with many families, we have to schedule our calendar many months in advance for all the events and activities and let our children make the hard decisions about what they want to set as priority. "Next weekend are you playing in your team's soccer game or going on the Cub Scout campout?"

So I am trying to lay out a schedule of fencing activities in light of this.

To date, I have not found a good description of how the USFA organizes youth activities, so I am in the dark. What is a Junior Olympics? What is a Sectional? What is a National? So I am asking you all these types of questions to help educate me.

Our coach is excellent and VERY patient with all the questions of a new family. The recommendation for our son is to compete as often as possible and definitely plan on attending Regionals because it qualifies you for Nationals.

With that guidance I am trying to better understand where he will get the best opportunities to compete against other kids his own age. The experience of this last competition was that there are probably not many chances to find a tournament with pools of Y12 epee fencers. So I am trying to understand better the organization of these tournaments.

I don't want to miss a chance for him to have a good age appropriate experience because I did not understand the nature of a tournament or did not schedule it and we had other plans.

As a newbee, I would have assumed that in your first year, you compete at the club tournaments during the year, and that is that. But the more I talk with parents and read here, that is not the case.
Nationals, (which I have always assumed was some sort of National Championship) is appropriate for novice/intermediate fencers because it has the biggest draw of age specific competitors. One parent told me that Nationals was the best experience his son had as a novice because he was not competing against 14 year olds, but other kids his own age.

As a parent, I think it is my duty to understand all of this and be able to help my son not get all caught up in some strive for Olympic glory. I hope you will not continue to take this desire to learn as an obsession to push my child. I am just trying to get guidance on all the options.

Rambler