Need to let off some steam...

[ESLyon]

Hey guys I am not a fencing coach but I am a gymnastics coach and I believe what I have to say covers almost every coaching situation in the world. I, like I believe most other coaches, coach because I love the sport, in my case gymnastics. I do not do this for the money, if I did I could certainly find a better job and would not volunteer my time to "extra" activities such as cleaning, and work days where we improve the gym and equipment. It is my stress reliever, my little niche in the world where I can go and not worry about the mountain of homework or the numerous other stresses in my life and do two things I love, gymnastics, and teach. What better thing is there than to share something you love with someone else?

SO that leads me to say, WHY DO SOME KIDS JUST MAKE ME WANT TO RIP MY HAIR OUT!? I started out today very well, I had managed to catch up on my schoolwork, I was ahead in several classes, and was feeling pretty optomistic. I got to gym and my first two classes were a little... less than average let's say, my third class was simply angels sent down from heaven above, it's probably my favorite class all week, and then my LAST class of the day, it was like hell on earth.... They didn't listen, they ran randomly around the gym, one of them kept pretending like she was hurt and would wallow around and cry and then when something came up that she liked she would hop right up and do it, no signs of injury. Quite frankly that class couldn't end soon enough. There are some days when I feel like the king of the world when I say that I am a gymnastics coach, and then there are some, like today, where I'm just so frustrated at the end of the day the ride home goes by in a flash cause I'm just so out of it and want the day to end!

Oh yeah I forgot to mention I had to deal with bureaucrats in a courthouse 13 hours away from my home, after transferring me to a number of useless individuals who only wanted to pass me on to the next person in line, I finally learned that all I needed to do to clear everything up was sent a M.O of 151$ via snail mail to Alabama....

My question to all you coaches out there is, do you have days like this? and if so, do you have something you do to help calm you down or make you feel better?

Sorry I had to rant, it's been a loooong day =)

[jBirch]

Oh yes do I have days like that!

Many, many, many days like that!

First thing that helps is that I have developed some assistant coaches that I rely on. When the bad days come, I just turn the class over to one of them and walk away. I'm doing nobody any good when I'm that frustrated with the class.

Second, fencing is a great sport for allowing the coach to hit a student repeatedly. *grin* Sometimes it's nice to just step on the piste and enjoy the sport with the students. It also leads into coachable moments when the class is just "playing fencing".

Third, many times if the class is acting that badly it's because I missed something core in the lesson and in my management of the group. Usually, it's because they have too much energy and too much "stand around time". The solution is simple: athletic activities until they can barely move.

As for students that "fake it", there's really not much that helps. My response is to simply ignore the behaviour and allow the student to bow out of the lesson. It usually occurs in the students who aren't interested in playing the game and are "forced" to be there by their parents. I used to spend a lot of time trying to "coddle" them through it, but it just drove me batty so I decided that spending my time with the eager students was a better thing to do.

Which leads me to the last thing that helps: my eager, talented students. I could spend FOREVER with these guys. THEY are why I coach. When I'm frustrated with the kids that don't want to be there and don't want to learn and just want the attention, I seek out my better students and work with them for a while.

That's my best therapy.

James.

[HookUpandFence]

Some things, I will "deputize" a couple of older/better fencers and break out into groups. Then I will just go between the groups and make sure they stay on task and make corrections, but it gives me some room. There was one time, we had this one "challenging" child and I paired him up with the really good and patient student so I could move on with the class rather than hold everyone up. Then, after the class I gave my helper like a 20 min lesson to make up for it. It was good in the end.

But there are some kids you just have to... get around... and hopefully the parents will be just disappointed enough to not enroll them again, but not so much they raise a fit.
More than one parent I talked to frankly about their child's behavior.
"I like your kid's enthusiasm, but I feel they lack the focus to get the most out of the class."

[thekoby]

I like jBirch's approach on this. Even though this is my first year actually coaching my club, I have been teaching the foil and epee classes for the last three and have run into similar problems. If a student annoyed me to the point that I couldn't stand them any longer I would ask the to fence me at the end of the class. I would completely wail on them and not hold back at all. My thoughts are that if they want to run their mouth about why they have to learn certain things then I will put it into context in a language they will understand; humiliation.

I currently have a student that does not like to do footwork drills because they have "medical problems". They fail to specify exactly what is wrong with them, but it keeps them from doing any type of drill (even the simple advance/retreat that we all start with before going faster). I finally broke down and told this student that if they wanted to be a competent fencer and win tournaments (like they stated they wanted to do) they would need to be more engaged in practice because it seemed to me that their "medical problems" went away as soon as a sabre was placed in their hands and they had someone to fence.

Last year I began losing control of my foil class because there was too much down time, like jBirch suggested, so this year I've become more strict on not allowing my class instructors to wallow around the lessons. If I see a lesson that is dragging along and the students don't look engaged, I jump in and start running some drills with them until everybody is limping for the water fountain. It sounds mean, but these people came to our club to learn fencing. If they wanted to just stand around and tell jokes, they should have joined the comedy club. That's my take on it.

I guess I should add really quick that I'm dealing with college students...I'm not sure what age range you're teaching gymnastics to.

[jBirch]

Just to clarify, I'm not advocating "wailing on the students". But rather, sometimes it's best to just get back to fencing with the kids for a little while and not worry so much about the training all the time.

For gymnastics, something like this:

http://www.stupidvideos.com/video/Wh.../?m=new#188945

James.

[Fencergrl]

My question to all you coaches out there is, do you have days like this?

Nope, we all coach little angels.

Seriously, group dynamics play a huge role. One group can be great while a few kids can turn classes into a coach's nightmare.

With these classes I have the kids that act up run laps (using the puppy theory that tired kids get into less trouble). The others see there's a negative payoff for misbehaving and fall in line.

Kids act up for attention of their peers and the instructor. Getting negative attention from me and their peers (who think it's funny their buddy is being punished) curbs the need.

Whiny kids and kids that act up get the same lack of acknowledgement. I also make an effort to reward the good kids.... not just the ones who fence well, but who make a genuine effort to learn, are quiet and helpful. I give certificates and free passes for kids for "most helpful", "best listeners" and "best footwork" etc... Dollar stores, air mile points for free movie passes etc... are inexpensive ways to show appreciation at the end of the season. Not only does this reward the good kids but it encourages the beginners to keep trying and keep fencing when they don't have as much success on the piste as the more experienced kids.

[MdA]

....

As for students that "fake it", there's really not much that helps. My response is to simply ignore the behaviour and allow the student to bow out of the lesson. It usually occurs in the students who aren't interested in playing the game and are "forced" to be there by their parents. I used to spend a lot of time trying to "coddle" them through it, but it just drove me batty so I decided that spending my time with the eager students was a better thing to do....

James.

I agree with this approach. I don't spend much time with the fencers who don't want to participate. I found that it is a waste of time for the good fencers in the class. If there is a parent present, I will discuss it after the class. I will explain that it is a group class and that for the benefit of the rest of the class, I must press on.

[milstdfarm]

I agree with JBirch and MdA, not to let the kids who don't really want to be there wreck the lesson for those who do.

My experience is as a Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Venture Crew leader with age ranges from 7 to 20 years of age. I've found that most kids don't have the attention span to learn much until they are 14 or 15. Some (like my own son) don't until they are 17. God bless grade school teachers! I don't know how they do it.

All I have found to do is offer the learning experience to those who are interested and let those who are not interested go back to playing with sticks in the dirt.

[ESLyon]

Second, fencing is a great sport for allowing the coach to hit a student repeatedly. *grin* Sometimes it's nice to just step on the piste and enjoy the sport with the students. It also leads into coachable moments when the class is just "playing fencing".

Alas, if this approach were used in gymnastics it would probably lead to a law suit... *sigh* oh well... Also it's nigh impossible to actually do gymnastics while you coach, sure you can demonstrate a technique or skill, but that in and of itself is not fun or stress-relieving in any way... =(

Third, many times if the class is acting that badly it's because I missed something core in the lesson and in my management of the group. Usually, it's because they have too much energy and too much "stand around time". The solution is simple: athletic activities until they can barely move.

YAY I love this technique! We run suicides or do conditioning until everyone is so tired they stop talking and are about to collapse, unfortunately you can't do this with 5-8 year old girls (which is what 90% of my classes are).

As for students that "fake it", there's really not much that helps. My response is to simply ignore the behaviour and allow the student to bow out of the lesson. It usually occurs in the students who aren't interested in playing the game and are "forced" to be there by their parents. I used to spend a lot of time trying to "coddle" them through it, but it just drove me batty so I decided that spending my time with the eager students was a better thing to do.

Yes I used to have this same approach, trying to appear concerned and "coddling" as you put it. BUt like you it drove me insane and took away class time, so now I just tell them to go sit somewhere (whilst thinking "so you don't bother the class, OR ME") and come back when you're ready to work.

Which leads me to the last thing that helps: my eager, talented students. I could spend FOREVER with these guys. THEY are why I coach. When I'm frustrated with the kids that don't want to be there and don't want to learn and just want the attention, I seek out my better students and work with them for a while.

YES I know just the ones you are talking about, the bad classes just stretch on forever and ever, and the good ones never last long enough! Often times after one such class, I would go back into the front office and tell another coach, "It's that class or person that makes dealing with the other 3 classes today worthwhile."

Thanks James!

[ESLyon]

Just to clarify, I'm not advocating "wailing on the students". But rather, sometimes it's best to just get back to fencing with the kids for a little while and not worry so much about the training all the time.

For gymnastics, something like this:

http://www.stupidvideos.com/video/Wh.../?m=new#188945

James.

This was hilarious, and Paul Hunt is pretty well known in the higher levels of gymnastics. Even though he is doing a comedy routine, his gymnastics is actually very good, you should look on youtube for his beam and floor routines as well.