LHC Black Hole. Am I the only one who is a concerned?

[ReverseLunge]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/09/08/lhc.collider/

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,418204,00.html

[Pescados666]

I have to run for 30 minutes that morning. I don't think my coach will let me out of it even if the world ends :/

[Pescados666]

I hate it when the losers reply. That's why I seldom come here anymore.

Ah... That's why the forums seem happier lately.

[App13]

Now children, lets not quarrel.

Now if only we had a guy with glasses and a crowbar...

In seriousness, its all hype and media.

[JackOfHearts]

Now if only we had a guy with glasses and a crowbar...

I just shaved, give me a couple of weeks for the beard to come in.

[Rabid Monk]

Nothing bad is going to happen.

Collisions like the LHC makes occur in nature all the time. Earth (and the solar system, galaxy, universe) are still here.

The LHC just lets phycisist control where the collisions occur, so they can observe them closely.


Personally, though, I think it would be more exciting with the risk of annihilation.

[Tha_Swrd_Queen]

The Big Bang Theory makes no sense whatsoever. There is no way on earth that the world just formed itself and sprinkled out some human beings. It's just some man-made theory created by a joker who refuses to believe in God.

[Empty Wallet]

I was listening to an interview with one of the leader researchers -- Brian Cox. He seemed to say that a parallel type of process would occur. However, the amount of energy that would be generated in the LHC was so small as not to matter.

There seems considerable debate within the physics area about what may happen. However, there have been other particle accelerators working for some years without any sort of incident to cause us worries.

The bigger worries he has been reporting is that the researchers have been getting death threats to try and make them stop the work.

(As an aside, Professor Cox used to be in the band D:Ream. Played keyboards.)

[Empty Wallet]

I guess the answers are in a lot of research. And I think you are raising two separate, but really important issues. One would be really handy to have a physicist on the board to help with, but I will use my HS learning and later readings to comment.

Black holes are known but not understood. But it is believed they require immense amounts of energy to construct in the first place. So, the comparative energy here they tell us is not the issue. As a researcher, I have pretty good knowledge in my field and I am able to make pretty good predictions of what will occur when I do my empirical work. Of course, not always correctly.

With this, I am relying on the physicists to have their knowledge and predictions in order so that the pile of work on my desk will still be waiting for me in a couple of days.

The other issue is the cost and outcome. CERN is immensely expensive, as are all these machines. However, there are pay offs that can come from the research. Certainly the smaller particle accelerators have unlocked all sorts of knowledge that has been put to very beneficial use -- including in things like medicines.

Oddly, from research policy work I have been involved with, we know that there has been a far bigger payoff from "pure" research that has uncovered major new knowledge compared to a lot of targeted applied research.

[Nolano]

The Big Bang Theory makes no sense whatsoever. There is no way on earth that the world just formed itself and sprinkled out some human beings. It's just some man-made theory created by a joker who refuses to believe in God.

Yes, a crazy man made theory. Completely unlike the belief of god, which has SO much evidence supporting it, and absolutely none suggesting things might be otherwise. Because totally, the big bang was just picked out of mid air.
"Hey, I refuse to believe in god, how should we say the universe was created?" "I dunno man... Oh, how about an explosion? That sounds cool."

Yes, no way on earth. However, very way, billions of years ago, out in what was then bleak nothingness.

Oh, and so what if the world ends? We've had a good run, it's all gonna be downhill from here. The end sounds exciting, though!

[Empty Wallet]

As I understant it, and I am still waiting for a physicist to jump in and help, the machines are used to generated radioactive materials and rays that can be used in cancer treatment and the like. I also believe that they have been used to study crystaline structures that can then be used to understand various diseases and help build drugs for therapeutic use.

I also understand that the analysis of structures can be used to assist with the development of new building materials by learning about fundamental structures and how these can be manipulated to make stronger and lighter beams, etc. Less material has positive environmental impacts as well as providing more economical things.

[Lady Quindecim]

I got onto this thread to give my opinion that it would not be possible to supply Earth-destroying energy into the system and whatnot, but the thread went a little sideways.
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo Galilei
Personally, I believe that a god could create universe . and can imagine that it would start off with a big something.
Benefits? If we keep looking for new answers by asking the same questions, we are crazy. Mankind needs a paradigm revelation in its understanding of the nature of the universe, or we will just keep on thinking that we are the center of all that matters and fight amongst ourselves, killing each other, destroying our planet over the lamest, most trivial of reasons like borders and religion.
If all we are going to do is slowly die out, wasting away with out little bitty blue and green marble, we may as well get it over with. Wipe it all out and let whatever governs the reality we cannot understand start over with something better than mankind.
Just my opinion... it does not matter. (Sumimasen)

[magic_moose]

If all we are going to do is slowly die out, wasting away with out little bitty blue and green marble, we may as well get it over with.

Wow.. Perhaps you should reconsider this.....

Reapply that on an individual level... "If I am going to get old and slow and die someday, I might as well get it over with now".

Heck of a way to view the world and people.

Build a little birdhouse in your soul!

[KidLazy]

Though it occurs in nature, it occurs outside of the earth's gravitational pull. Black holes also occur in nature but zillions of light years away. Would you want one no matter how small to open up on earth?

The experiment is similar to cosmic rays htting Earth, at a very very very small scale. It has occured for billions times over bilions years. Earth, moon, us are still here.

They are actually looking forward to see a black hole, it would support the theory that there are 10 (or 11) dimensions in the universe.

[Nolano]

As I understant it, and I am still waiting for a physicist to jump in and help, the machines are used to generated radioactive materials and rays that can be used in cancer treatment and the like. I also believe that they have been used to study crystaline structures that can then be used to understand various diseases and help build drugs for therapeutic use.

I also understand that the analysis of structures can be used to assist with the development of new building materials by learning about fundamental structures and how these can be manipulated to make stronger and lighter beams, etc. Less material has positive environmental impacts as well as providing more economical things.

I actually think that the materials become radioactive as a side effect, not a main goal. It's something about being pounded with high speed particles.

[academe]

A risk of catastrophe (no matter how small a risk) is not worth satisfying our curiosity. And it's not even everyone's curiosity because not everyone wants to know.

The truth is that no one is CERTAIN what will happen through using the LHC. The best the scientists at CERN can give you is that the chances of a catastrophe are infinitesimally small. But regardless of how small the risk is, who honestly gives them the right to take that risk? For everyone? ....in the world? Regardless of how much more they know about it than everyone else they are taking a risk that puts the world at serious danger. It's not right that these people can take this risk for the other 6 billion people they share a home with.

It's wrong.

Well, I can tell you it is right. I'm from the future.

This study on the 10th verifies many theories. One of them that time travel is possible. This allowed me to come back to your present to witness this great event.

So, as we say in the future: don't get your bosons in a bunch!

Ted (Bill couldn't make it this time.)

ps: Don't elect McCain and Palin, the consequences of such are much worse than the collider!

[KidLazy]

A risk of catastrophe (no matter how small a risk) is not worth satisfying our curiosity. And it's not even everyone's curiosity because not everyone wants to know.

The truth is that no one is CERTAIN what will happen through using the LHC. The best the scientists at CERN can give you is that the chances of a catastrophe are infinitesimally small. But regardless of how small the risk is, who honestly gives them the right to take that risk? For everyone? ....in the world? Regardless of how much more they know about it than everyone else they are taking a risk that puts the world at serious danger. It's not right that these people can take this risk for the other 6 billion people they share a home with.

It's wrong.

They are looking for God; it is everyone's curiosity and it is worth the risk.

Well, I can tell you it is right. I'm from the future.

This study on the 10th verifies many theories. One of them that time travel is possible. This allowed me to come back to your present to witness this great event.

Actually, that might be possible if other dim. exist and we can move freely in them.

[Epee_Pox]

Is there anyone esle concerned about this experiment that will take place on Wednesday? I myself am a bit terrified.

Oh for crying out loud.

The claims of destruction/annihilation/etc. are what happens when you get people who don't understand what's going on, feed them some vocabulary without any actual understanding, and let them report on it to the general public.

There are interesting things to do in the LHC, and interesting results to observe. The public brouhaha over the imaginary dangers just distracts from the much cooler stuff really going on.

If it helps, consider this: If in fact a stable black hole were to be created (very very low probability of that), then its Hawking radiation would ensure that it did not absorb the world, but would instead just break down into the matter from which it first formed. Unstable black holes, plural, would be equally insignificant. Teeny-tiny ones are probably popping into and out of existence all the time, without bothering us. The concept of destroying the Earth is so contrary to the science that it's not even wrong.

The cosmic ray analogies made above are correct. Cosmic ray particles have amazingly more energy than what will be produced by the LHC -- stick some zeros on the end of the LHC's energy and you're still not there. And they interact with Earth all the time, without blowing it up.

The collisions the LHC will make happen ALL THE TIME. We just don't get a chance to observe them under controlled conditions. The whole point is simply to get an observation, to either confirm or disprove what we think is probably happening, and what is really happening all the time.

For any black holes to be dangerous, the coupling of TeV-scale black holes to matter would have to 10-to-the-fiftieth-power stronger than physicists believe it to be. AT THE SAME TIME, it would have to be significantly weaker than physicists believe it to be, so that they don't immediately evaporate due to Hawking Radiation.

Could physicists be wrong? Could the coupling of TeV-scale black holes be significantly bigger or smaller than we think? Absolutely, BUT NOT BOTH!

Bah.

[Phantom5588]

Well, assuming that there is little to nothing that we can do to impede what has already been set into motion here, I'd kind of like to be there to witness first hand the effects of this monumental occurance.

RL- I share your position that we should not experiment with unstable, unpredictable elements simply for curiosity's sake. Society has more than enough resources and technologies to exist at an acceptable and even comfortable level.

"Nothing will happen for at least four years," retired German Otto Rossler told the Mail. "Then someone will spot a light ray coming out of the Indian Ocean during the night and no one will be able to explain it."

(Quote from Fox News Link)

Doesn't this coincide with Nostradamus' prediction that the world will end in 2012? Just some cannon fodder for all of you conspiracy theorists out there...


Then again, this was one of Nostradamus' predictions as well...

The year of the great seventh number accomplished,
It will appear at the time of the games of slaughter:
Not far from the great millennial age,
When the buried will go out from their tombs.

(Above quote is from 2012endofdays.org.)

Did Nostradamus just predict ZOMBIES?

[TBean]

Is there anyone esle concerned about this experiment that will take place on Wednesday? I myself am a bit terrified.

Not in the least.