Need help with picking beginners FIE gear!

[Patrician]

Could some one please help me with a good beginners gear with FIE specs in the mid price range. Or is simply all FIE gear good?

I need,
Mask (non visor)
Jacket (left handed)
Pants
Glove (left handed)
Plastron (mandatory for competitions? necessary?)
Epee (electric)

Which manufacturer makes the best gear for its price?
- According to this, You might as well buy FWF as they are the "old" Uhlmann, correct?

Are there any online shops that have good gear and good prices that ships to Sweden?


Thanks a lot!

EDIT: Added some.

[Blakeian]

The FWF gear that I have seen has been great. Leon Paul have a high standard and some of their gear is in the mid-price range. PBT also have good quality gear but its been a while since I've looked at their prices.

Glove: you could probably buy this locally through your club.

Plastron, many will say this is mandatory outside of competition. You can get away without it at training if you use a good jacket but to some it isn't worth the risk. As far as competitions it depends on the level you are fencing at, check with the national sporting body or again ask someone at your club who competes.

For the mask I lean towards LP but what you should do is go around at your club and see what other people have. Find the mask that suits the shape of your head. Also many would say that you should buy an FIE mask. Really its your choice and so long as it is well made there shouldn't be any problems. The biggest factors in deciding between FIE and non-FIE is your concern for your safety and the level of fencing you intend to be competing at. If its just at club level then non-FIE is fine. National or at FIE competitions - this wouldn't float.

For the Epee it depends on what level you anticipating competing at in the coming 6 or 12 months. If its just at club and at levels where you don't require an FIE blade go for something that isn't FIE if money is an issue. As for specific blades its been a while since I've fenced Epee so I'll let someone else field that one.

You will need to purchase two body chords as well.

Shipping wise you'll be fine. I live far from any vendors and haven't paid anything outrageous for shipping. If it really is an issue you probably have a local vendor that can help you out and let you try the gear before you buy.

PBT is Hungarian. Leon Paul is British. FWF/Allstar/Ulhman are German. Negrini is Italian. All of them should ship to you.

[SJCFU#2]

First off, bear in mind that much of the advise you will receive on this forum will tend to be US-centric - you may want to talk to Zilverzmurfen or PeterGustafsson for a more local point of view.

Originally Posted by Patrician

Could some one please help me with a good beginners gear with FIE specs in the mid price range. Or is simply all FIE gear good?

Just about all FIE gear is decent quality. I'm not aware of anyone who produces a "beginner's" line of FIE gear - what higher cost usually get you is greater comfort (for example, full stretch fabric as opposed to stretch panels).

Mask (non visor)

Many people rave about the LP Comfort fit, although if you are only doing epee you probably won't need their X-Change mask. Outside of that it really comes do a matter of comfort and fit (for example Prier masks have a reputation for being built like a tank however they tend to run a bit narrow so they can be hard to fit on anyone who doesn't happen to have a narrow face).

Jacket (left handed)
Pants

As far as jackets and pants are concerned, it's often a trade off between cost and comfort. The most expensive uniforms tend to be the most comfortable, however many people accept little more weight in their jacket but pay extra for full stretch knickers/britches (for example, an Uhlmann World Cup jacket and Olympia pants). A wicking liner can also make a jacket much more comfortable to wear.

Glove (left handed)

AFAIK there are no "FIE" gloves, although I believe both Leon Paul and HOM Fencing (aka Purplefencer) produce gloves made from 350N fabric which provide a greater degree of protection. Most people simply choose what fits them best.

Plastron (mandatory for competitions? necessary?)

I believe you will find that the plastron is mandatory for competitions just about everywhere. It should also be worn during practice. Even the strongest jackets tend to have weak points at the seams - the plastron provides protection behind these weak points.

Occasionally someone will produce a jacket with an integral plastron.

Epee (electric)

Many people love the feel of BF FIE blades but they are expensive. STM FIE blades tend to be popular as a less expensive alternative. Vnitit FIE blades may be the closest any blade will ever come to being indestructible. Bear in mind that there are really only a handful of forges producing these blades so most vendors end up buying them from the same source, even if they then put their own name on them.

Which manufacturer makes the best gear for its price?

Based on what I've heard over the years Allstar and Uhlmann used to be the primary supplier for Swedish fencers however they have now shifted much of their production to China and many people have shifted to FWF. FWF was founded by one of A/U's former suppliers, however I believe that their uniforms are entirely their own creation. Leon Paul has an excellent reputation for quality. Escrime's FIE uniform also sounds like it will be pretty nice if they can ever get FIE approval (AFAIK testing has been completed and they are only waiting for the FIE to issue a letter stating that it is approved). I've also heard that PBT (a Hungarian manufacturer) makes decent equipment for the price however this may depend on whether or not you can order from the directly.

Are there any online shops that have good gear and good prices that ships to Sweden?

You should probably try contacting the individual vendors to confirm whether or not they can ship to Sweden, however a few that come to mind include Absolute Fencing Gear (US), Fechtsport Langenkamp (Germany), Leon Paul (England), Prieur (France), Negrinni (Italy) and PBT (Hungary). I'm sure there are a number of others whom I've overlooked - try asking the people you fence with.

[Belegur]

An online search reveals En Garde as being a Swedish-based equipment supplier (http://www.en-garde.info/). They seem to stock four different brands: PBT, Uhlmann, FWF and Jiang. Of these, I'd personally go for FWF (and avoid Jiang), but it's really a matter of choosing which gear fits you best. Most manufacturers have sizing charts available on the web so you can get an idea of how their uniforms would fit you.

Leon Paul or Negrini also sell quality gear, although slightly more expensive. I don't have enough experience with Prieur or Duellist equipment to comment on their quality, and Carmimari only appear to ship to Italy or Germany.

The question is, though: do you really need a full set of FIE gear at the moment? What equipment standards do the Swedish Fencing Federation require?

[KD5MDK]

You might also check the exchange rate for buying the Absolute FIE gear. Their signature series is pretty pricey over here, but it might be much more affordable in Europe...

[ejemyr]

Originally Posted by Belegur

The question is, though: do you really need a full set of FIE gear at the moment? What equipment standards do the Swedish Fencing Federation require?

Sweden has rather rigid demands on uniforms and mask. For sanctionend tournaments the Swedish Fencing Federation demands:

Mostly FIE approved gear from the age of 14. ALL FIE approved gear from the age of 16 (Cadett). This goes to jacket, pants, mask and plastrong.

However, as I understand it (!!) FIE approved blades are not required unless participating in internaltional VC/Satellite tournaments.

As per what gear to chose, see other threads in this forum. eBay may offer an alternative. Not least on www.ebay.de, there are often 2nd hand stuff for sale. Will require prior agreement with the German seller to ship to Sweden.

The only thing I have a strong opinion on is that the X-change mask from Leon Paul is way, way better than any of the the old toung-style masks with fixed bib. Check it out!

[Patrician]

Thanks a lot for your help!

BTW, I fence Epee

I was thinking that buying only FIE gear at start might be a bit too expensive. FWF and Leon Paul seems to be really good.

So I'm thinking of buying the following (standards):


Mask (FIE)
Leon Paul Contour Fit FIE Mask, good choice?
Plastron (FIE)
Which one?
Jacket (FIE)
Which one?
Pants (350n)
Which ones?
Glove
Whatever
Epee (FIE or not? Electric or not?)
How much for an Epee? $200 again?

Thanks alot guys!

EDIT: How about a FIE Leon Paul starter kit?
Its about 6000 SEK/ $1000 / £500...

EDIT2: Added a specific mask from KD5MDK's tip below.

[KD5MDK]

Electric masks are for sabre.

$200 is plenty

[jscanlon]

Just thought I would point out you probably want:

2 weapons and 2 bodycords...

Also, personally, I wouldn't skimp on the glove bit I am a bit biased having been skewered through the hand with a blunted practice foil. I can testify that it hurts alot...not to mention the fact that there are quite a few tendons and muscles to protect in the hand.

Of course I was using a brand new Allstar glove at the time too so who really knows.

[Nolano]

I wouldn't get FIE weapons at first. Go with something less expensive and more durable, early on. The LP non FIE blades are pretty decent, and last forever. The only reason I don't use mine anymore is because I finally realized that I like stiff blades with better point control.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by ejemyr

Mostly FIE approved gear from the age of 14.

How is "mostly" defined?

-B

[Zilverzmurfen]

Originally Posted by Belegur

An online search reveals En Garde as being a Swedish-based equipment supplier (http://www.en-garde.info/).

I personally would not buy through them. My experience is with Allstar DE directly, they are very good to deal with, from my experience, and would also be cheaper than ordering through "En Garde".

[jscanlon=]2 weapons and 2 bodycords...[/quote]He'll be fine with 1 weapon + 1 body cord for now. (Unless of course he has the money and really want to spend them. )

Originally Posted by oiuyt

How is "mostly" defined?

-B

Everything but the blade and glove.
(There is a document off of the Swedish Fencing Fed. website where all the regulations for different ages/competitions are stated.)

Originally Posted by Patrician

Mask (FIE)
Leon Paul Contour Fit FIE Mask, good choice?
Plastron (FIE)
Which one?
Jacket (FIE)
Which one?
Pants (350n)
Which ones?
Glove
Whatever
Epee (FIE or not? Electric or not?)
How much for an Epee? $200 again?

Thanks alot guys!

EDIT: How about a FIE Leon Paul starter kit?
Its about 6000 SEK/ $1000 / £500...

Excellent choice of mask (I've already appointed that one as my future replacer myself. )

FWF is not yet so widely used a brand in Sweden, but I predict it's up and coming. It looks to be of good quality, looks nice and is slightly cheaper than Allstar/Uhlmann.

I would feel confident buying the entire FIE 800N kit from them.
As a personal advice, may I suggest that you also get 800N breeches? I'm aware that they will be a little more expensive than 350N, but here's my reasoning: You are 20 years old already, so a senior fencer. The 350N breeches will be fine for practicing at the club but should you ever want to participate in a competition you will need 800N kit. Hey, Nationals is only ~months away.

(Also, since you are prepared already to buying the rest of the kit 800N, "skimping out" on the pants doesn't make sense to me. I think, in the long run, you will find it will be worth getting 800N.)

Glove: You can get a perfectly ok glove from our coach for 120:-
Easy to toss in the washing machine (30 C) every now and then.)

Épée:
Definitely electric. FIE blade will not be needed for you for now. A non-FIE blade is ~400 SEK. Add in cost for grip etc. and its going to be...~600:- (roughly guessing).

[KD5MDK]

Everything but the blade and glove.

I'd be very scared if you required FIE gloves...

[Zilverzmurfen]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

I'd be very scared if you required FIE gloves...

Well, Purple sells 800N gloves. *shrug*
I personally wouldn't be "scared", more "confused". Either way, who knows what the FIE has in store for us...

[SJCFU#2]

Originally Posted by Zilverzmurfen

Well, Purple sells 800N gloves.

IIRC Purple Fencer's Armor Two glove is only 350N (which still makes it stronger than almost every other glove out there - the only gloves I know of which even come close are the 350N ones from Leon Paul).

My understanding is that PF has been working on an 800N glove for some time (the Armor Three?) however he has yet to bring it to market (the high cost of 800N material probably isn't making things any easier).

[Zilverzmurfen]

Originally Posted by SJCFU#2

IIRC Purple Fencer's Armor Two glove is only 350N (which still makes it stronger than almost every other glove out there - the only gloves I know of which even come close are the 350N ones from Leon Paul).

My understanding is that PF has been working on an 800N glove for some time (the Armor Three?) however he has yet to bring it to market (the high cost of 800N material probably isn't making things any easier).

Ok, I obviosly mistook the FIE rating. Apologies. My point really was to mention that there are indeed FIE rated gloves available for those that wish to use one.

[forethought]

Originally Posted by SJCFU#2

I'm not aware of anyone who produces a "beginner's" line of FIE gear - what higher cost usually get you is greater comfort (for example, full stretch fabric as opposed to stretch panels).

Negrini just recently came out with their Evolution FIE uniform, which, depending on your size, can be had anywhere from €214-€294* (~$307-$422). Upon inquiry as to their new products, they've sent me samples of the fabric from the Evolution line, as well as their High Performance line so that I can compare the two; I've not received them yet, but by their own description, the Evolution material is a little thicker and not quite as stretchy as the High Performance line.


*Prices based on European shipping destination, and thus includes VAT.