How to regain timing in Fencing?

[Stewen1]

I recently started fencing again and i noticed I have lost my timing. This has caused me to lose more bouts and barely win some bouts. Is there anything i can do to get my timing back?

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Do whatever got you the timing in the first place.

[Cerian]

[telkanuru]

[mrbiggs]

Practice.


(insert picture downloaded from image forum here)

[Sean Butler]

I am struggling with the same thing for the same reason, Stewen1. What I have found is helping me is a regular strength training program along with heavy cardio activities like skipping rope and sprints. When your muscles are stronger, your reflexes are better and your reaction time improves.

But, as the first response said, this was exactly what I did to get the timing and reflexes in the first place.

[HDG]

Originally Posted by Sean Butler

I am struggling with the same thing for the same reason, Stewen1. What I have found is helping me is a regular strength training program along with heavy cardio activities like skipping rope and sprints. When your muscles are stronger, your reflexes are better and your reaction time improves.

But, as the first response said, this was exactly what I did to get the timing and reflexes in the first place.

Reflexes and reaction time ≠ sense of timing. That is as much about knowing when to act as execution.

[CurtM]

I've just come back from a long time away from fencing (over 10 years) and I'm finding that getting back very simple footwork and point control drills is helping a lot with finding a rhythm again. I've found that if I focus on those little things enough, the bigger things start coming back faster.

[Sean Butler]

Originally Posted by HDG

Reflexes and reaction time ≠ sense of timing. That is as much about knowing when to act as execution.

I hear what you are saying, but I think I have to disagree a bit. Without good reflexes and reaction time, one simply cannot have consistently good timing. What good is it to know when to act if you simply cannot react fast enough to capitalize on that knowledge? The physical ability to react quickly, the ability to cover a larger amount of distance, and increasing the tempo of your own actions will naturally teach you the sense of timing that you need as you practice. Only strength and cardio training will give you these quickly.

If a person has fenced for 5 years and has done so competitively, I would hope that he/she has some idea of the timing of a fencing phrase. My suggestion was based on my own experience of having grown older and a little slower, while still having a good sense of how a fencing bout is fought. For younger people who have stayed with another sport and kept up their level of fitness and strength, they might just need more practice and drilling with an instructor.

Edit: Having said all of that, I do realize that at the higher levels of the sport, timing and the execution of actions are distinctly separated. In fact, I would say that timing, tactics, strategy, and psychology are much more related at the higher levels than execution is. But I believe this to be the case only because further strength and conditioning training has reached a stage where it no longer yields a good rate of return on performance improvement.

[telkanuru]

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

(insert picture downloaded from image forum here)

Here you go.

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by Sean Butler

Without good reflexes and reaction time, one simply cannot have consistently good timing. What good is it to know when to act if you simply cannot react fast enough to capitalize on that knowledge?

I disagree with this. Even a slow reaction time is quite fast, and there are a lot of places to attack with good timing. My reflexes are not at all spectacular, and there are certainly plenty of people with much better reflexes whom I can beat on timing alone.

Since my last post, I remembered a drill that might also be helpful to you and the OP (although "practice" is, as always, your best option). This is also a distance drill, and it could be argued that it's more of a distance drill. In any case, fence someone who's very much a beginner compared to you--someone whom you can beat 5-0 without trying too hard, and whom you can beat on just about any given action nearly every time. Try to fence them using just well-timed lunges. No parries, no attacks, just very well-timed lunges. You can advance and retreat as appropriate to keep distance (but with the purpose to attack or "distance parry"), and even parry if absolutely necessary, but if done right you should be able to score most of your touches off a straight lunge. Once you are able to do that against weak opponents, you can try it against stronger and stronger opponents. Eventually, you'll be able to see openings and execute similar well-timed lunges even against fencers as good or even better than yourself.

In foil it's especially easy nowadays because even a small twist makes it very difficult for your opponent to get a light on. You can mess up the timing a fair amount and still get the touch, especially against mediocre opponents.

[Patrician]

When I think of timing I dont see what that has got to do with physique and cardio activities?

You can easily lose your timing or your "flow" when fencing and for me it usually has got to do with footwork, for me atleast. Not about physique.
What gets me back on track is usually to just relax->en garde->focus.

EDIT: Its physique, not physics

[piste off]

Everything you need to know about timing:

http://humortube.blogspot.com/2006/0...pting-cow.html

R-

[NGV]

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

I disagree with this. Even a slow reaction time is quite fast, and there are a lot of places to attack with good timing. My reflexes are not at all spectacular, and there are certainly plenty of people with much better reflexes whom I can beat on timing alone.

Wouldn't it depend somewhat on the weapon? In epee, .04 seconds is a pretty long time (long enough that a fencer who's ahead may intentionally look for double touches), and the reaction time difference between one fencer and another could vary by twice that much.

[telkanuru]

Originally Posted by piste off

Everything you need to know about timing:

http://humortube.blogspot.com/2006/0...pting-cow.html

R-

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[seven6ty]

Take lessons.

And then practice. Spend twice the amount of time practicing the things that you learn in a lesson, on your own. Also, practice the things you already know, on your own, repeatedly. You'll improve.

[Sean Butler]

Originally Posted by Patrician

When I think of timing I dont see what that has got to do with physics and cardio activities?

You can easily lose your timing or your "flow" when fencing and for me it usually has got to do with footwork, for me atleast. Not about physics.
What gets me back on track is usually to just relax->en garde->focus.

I am not sure where you got "physics" from... I said that strength training helps. The reason it helps is that it works to increase a person's sense of balance, his fast-twitch reflexes, and his stamina. All of these things will give you: fewer chances to be surprised and off-guard, better ability to react to the changing tempo of a bout, and a longer period of time during which you are at your peak ability to perform. Until a person is in excellent physical condition, there is little else which will help him to more rapidly excel at any sport.

About footwork: better leg strength will always make your footwork easier and faster to perform. With the increased speed and athleticism, it logically follows that a person should improve what footwork they already know, especially through further practice and drill.

Think of it this way: Suppose two people fence a bout and one is very athletic with good stamina, while the other is technically pretty good but has less leg strength and less stamina. The former fencer could simply play a cat and mouse game with the latter by drawing out attacks from him which he knows won't land. Enough failed attacks and not only will his opponent tire, but he will lose his confidence. At that point he will be less mobile and easier to defeat. Thus, even a less trained fencer who is more athletic could potentially beat a better trained one who is less athletic. Only at the highest levels where everyone has roughly equal levels of stamina and strength can we move past this into the finer aspects of the sport.

The person in better condition controls the tempo and timing of the bout, the other must react to it.

[HDG]

Originally Posted by Sean Butler

I am not sure where you got "physics" from... I said that strength training helps. The reason it helps is that it works to increase a person's sense of balance, his fast-twitch reflexes, and his stamina. All of these things will give you: fewer chances to be surprised and off-guard, better ability to react to the changing tempo of a bout, and a longer period of time during which you are at your peak ability to perform. Until a person is in excellent physical condition, there is little else which will help him to more rapidly excel at any sport.

About footwork: better leg strength will always make your footwork easier and faster to perform. With the increased speed and athleticism, it logically follows that a person should improve what footwork they already know, especially through further practice and drill.

Think of it this way: Suppose two people fence a bout and one is very athletic with good stamina, while the other is technically pretty good but has less leg strength and less stamina. The former fencer could simply play a cat and mouse game with the latter by drawing out attacks from him which he knows won't land. Enough failed attacks and not only will his opponent tire, but he will lose his confidence. At that point he will be less mobile and easier to defeat. Thus, even a less trained fencer who is more athletic could potentially beat a better trained one who is less athletic. Only at the highest levels where everyone has roughly equal levels of stamina and strength can we move past this into the finer aspects of the sport.

The person in better condition controls the tempo and timing of the bout, the other must react to it.

That still doesn't speak to the sense of timing, which I believe was the OP's concern.

[Stewen1]

i got it back . Im fencing great now but i didnt try anything but worked out my legs

[Grasshopper]

Originally Posted by Stewen1

i got it back . Im fencing great now but i didnt try anything but worked out my legs

Oh, so you lost your mojo, not your timing.