Points List Aged Out

[roxiered]

Can someone tell me when the points list will be aged out to reflect current season?

[Peach]

Originally Posted by roxiered

Can someone tell me when the points list will be aged out to reflect current season?

Which points list?

[KD5MDK]

The only possible one is Senior. The first event of Junior/Cadet was in July, and the last event of Vet hasn't happened yet*.


*As well you know.

[oiuyt]

Uhm, people don't age out of senior.

Probably asking about the youth lists.

-B

[Soberin]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

Uhm, people don't age out of senior.

Probably asking about the youth lists.

-B

Yes, in Seniors we simply get nudged out due to infirmity, except perhaps in epee.

[Peach]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

The only possible one is Senior. The first event of Junior/Cadet was in July, and the last event of Vet hasn't happened yet*.


*As well you know.

Yes, but I couldn't resist the opportunity to be snarky. School started today.

[fencerbill]

Many of the point lists do not age out, that is true. But the entries adding to the point totals get removed as the entries become more than a year old. If the fencer earns points in an event like NAC B, they replace the previous year's NAC B points. If the fencer does not participate in the successor NAC B, the points are just deleted.

There are also 2 different sets of point lists. The ones listed on the USFA web site are used for seeding into events.

There are also points lists used for team selection, BUT THE USFA NO LONGER DISPLAYS THEM FOR US TO SEE.

If you want to see them, download the event results and then add them up yourself.

Why?

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

Uhm, people don't age out of senior.

Probably asking about the youth lists.

-B

Surely someone on the senior points list passed away from natural causes at some point one year...

[fencerbill]

More likely from the Veterans lists.

[KD5MDK]

Right, but there's a separate list. I'm trying to find some shred of lunacy that will keep oiuyt from having proven me completely wrong.

[passata_sotto]

Originally Posted by roxiered

Can someone tell me when the points list will be aged out to reflect current season?

For the youths points lists it needs to be done before people starting holding RYCs

[oso97]

Originally Posted by passata_sotto

For the youths points lists it needs to be done before people starting holding RYCs

Well, you know, the National Office and YDC are completely overwhelmed by the size of the RYC program... Or so we're led to believe!

[Nospam]

Originally Posted by passata_sotto

For the youths points lists it needs to be done before people starting holding RYCs

Aside from that, shouldn't the youth points list be aged out already since we have started a new season in AUGUST ? (I mean c'mon already.....)

For youth, the 2007-2008 points list(LAST SEASON) should be under 'past results' and the new updated points list should be reflected under 'current points list.'

[CorinneG]

The Youth points will be aged out and the 2008-2009 points sent to the National Office for posting over the weekend. I will also update the Sr points to include the Olympics.

The National Office has been very good about posting the points quickly after I send them.

The delay in this is all mine.

Veteran points will be aged out after the Vet World Champs - Good luck to the team!

Corinne

[fencerbill]

Corinne:

Again my appreciation for all your efforts on behalf of fencing. Both now as a volunteer and your excellent efforts while at the USFA National Office.

My poor memory tells me that I first encountered you at the first Tampa VWC in 2002. What I do know is that I went to several Veterans World Championships while you were toiling on behalf of myself and my team mates.

This is an observation. I don't know of any list that I expect to be published that will list Veteran fencers in the order in which they qualified for the oncoming Veterans World Championships in Limoges in October.

That is because the 2007-2008 final rankings of the year will, I expect, still include points for the 2007 VWC which is not part of the 2007-2008 season. With the 2007 VWC points, the published list would only be useful in seeding for a mythical national tournament which will never take place.

To get the rankings for qualification to the 2008 VWC in Limoges, you have to download the PDF of the published list and edit it.

Because of this and, furthermore, for the final list to only depend on the 2007-2008 performance, I don't believe the final ranking list for the 2007-2008 season should include points from the previous season's VWC.

Yes the list for the 2008-2009 season should include points from the 2008 VWC. Because it is used for seeding for the coming season NACs and SN.

I am well aware of this situation because I was fortunate to benefit from it for several years when the Dec and Mar NACs were for all veterans over 40. There were a couple of NACs where I would be seeded in the top 4 and was lucky to make the top 16.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by fencerbill

This is an observation. I don't know of any list that I expect to be published that will list Veteran fencers in the order in which they qualified for the oncoming Veterans World Championships in Limoges in October.

The list of who qualified doesn't have the points totals but does list veteran fencers in the order in which they qualified.

That said, I think Bill makes a very good point that the "end-of-year" list should be equivalent to a team-selection list, rather than a rolling list. The VWC points only appear on rolling rankings. Unlike senior, the veteran lists are generally only presented in rolling, rather than both rolling and team separately during the season.

-B

[CorinneG]

Here's the "we've always done it this way" speach...

End of Season points are meant to reflect the rankings at the end of the season for that particular group, meaning they include the Summer Nationals (the final "Championship" event for youth), World Champs or Olympics (as in the case this year) for the Seniors, Juniors, Cadets, and Vets.

Because those are the final events of the season, they are incorporated into the end of season (EOS) points. Vet EOS points will include the 2008 Vet Worlds.

Maybe what we need to do is archive a seperate EOS points and call them the End of Season Selection Points. These would be the team point standings used to determine the fencers for the World Champs (or Olympics).

This way you'd have the best of both worlds...a true EOS point standings that include all events from the previous season and a Team EOS that shows the order of selection and is finalized on selection day, and no further calculation is done.

Would that cover all the bases?

On a side note: When I was working in the USFA office I had a great appreciation for all the volunteers out there, but now that I'm on the other side, that appreciation is growing. It take disipline to sit down and do the volunteer work rather than play with the kids, watch TV, sleep, etc. I want to say thank you again to all the volunteers out there that I worked with throughout the years and who are continuing to work for "fun". Your efforts are greatly appreciated by all.

Corinne

[fencerbill]

Sounds good.

But for someone who first started fencing in 1953, not all of the "we've always done it this way" speeches sound the same.

[sheck]

Originally Posted by CorinneG

Vet EOS points will include the 2008 Vet Worlds.

Corinne

Side note: These points should not be used for 40+ seeding. They should only be used for the specific age groups 50-59 and 60+.

[Peach]

Originally Posted by sheck

Side note: These points should not be used for 40+ seeding. They should only be used for the specific age groups 50-59 and 60+.

Has that been officially changed? I don't remember it being changed, but I could be wrong.