Let's Get Physical!

[black card]

If my name doesn't serve as somewhat of a clue, I am a bit of a physical fencer. I fence primarily epee. I am not above the occasional hip or shoulder check, or even a headbutt. I know we fence in a "gentleman's" sport and all, but versus the right fencer at the right moment, a little pain can go a long way. I don't think of these tactics as an "every bout" type of thing - that would be obnoxious and counterproductive. I am just a proponent of using them when there is a potential benefit.

A personal favorite of mine is using a "bad" flick to numb up a weapon arm. I also adore sabre because of the pain-inflicting potential.

So, use this thread to discuss:

- What tactics of this kind you use (with examples).

- Your opinion on them.

- What names you would like to call me.

[tchwojko]

Originally Posted by black card

A personal favorite of mine is using a "bad" flick to numb up a weapon arm. I also adore sabre because of the pain-inflicting potential.

There are two possibilities with a bad flick that hurts:
1. I hit with a counter, and ask for a moment between touches.
2. I drop my blade because my arm went numb, and no one scores.

Go for it!

Getting overly physical without provocation, and I'll get a red card for you.

Few decent fencers will give you reason or opportunity for that behavior, so I think you'll piss some people off and lose a lot of bouts.

(Though there are some who deserve a head butt once in a while...)

[jkdjeff]

Personally, I'm glad that your location indicates that I'm never likely to fence you.

Deliberately trying to injure another fencer is the nadir of sportsmanship.

[KD5MDK]

Once you develop a reputation for brutality, people will start watching you for it and be waiting to card you. It takes a lot of benefit to outweigh that many cards.

[darius]

I also adore sabre because of the pain-inflicting potential.

If you're hitting hard enough to inflict much pain, you're hitting slow enough that I can tag you in preparation and to add insult to injury, parry and get one light. If I feel like you're a jerk, maybe I'll put a little too much mustard on my riposte; the ref "won't see" it because they feel like it's fair that you get a little of your own medicine. Of course, you get the first shot free.

Let's put it this way; if you're fencing in a tournament that matters, against competent adults:
1. We'll make sure that if it hurts enough to matter, you get carded.
2. Failing that, commuppence is a biyatch.

darius

[IvorDarcy]

Why is anyone even bothering to reply to this obvious idiot?

Is there an ignore user button on this thing?

[FoilBlender]

I'd talk s*** about you at every tournament/club i go to/visit and if you tried to pull that crap again, I'd beat you up or make you look like a big douche.

[telkanuru]

Y'all got trolled, and good.


"If it doesn't land, at least it will hurt" flicks have existed at all levels of fencing for quite a while though. I hear stories about nasty Russians all the time.

[Codex]

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by IvorDarcy

Why is anyone even bothering to reply to this obvious idiot?

Is there an ignore user button on this thing?

Click on his name, go to "View Public Profile". Then click on "User lists" and select "Add to Ignore List".

[black card]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Once you develop a reputation for brutality, people will start watching you for it and be waiting to card you. It takes a lot of benefit to outweigh that many cards.

I agree with you. I think overuse of any questionable tactic would quickly render it useless. I guess I just believe that once in a great while these tactics have been effective because:

1. they work on a purely mechanical level by inflicting pain on a part of the body.

2. fencing, more than other sports I have played, have a contingent of people that are not mentally tough. Not everyone, of course. Just more than say, football or baseball.

[black card]

Originally Posted by jkdjeff

Personally, I'm glad that your location indicates that I'm never likely to fence you.

Deliberately trying to injure another fencer is the nadir of sportsmanship.

You need to learn that there is difference between pain and injury.

[Guymelef]

Originally Posted by black card

fencing, more than other sports I have played, have a contingent of people that are not mentally tough. Not everyone, of course. Just more than say, football or baseball.

You need to learn that there is difference between pain and injury.

You need to learn the difference between fencing and football and baseball.

[Mr.MightyMouse]

Originally Posted by black card

You need to learn that there is difference between pain and injury.

Really good fencers can intimidate with corps a corps, but without jostling;
when douchebags like you come up - I just bind in counter 2 from a counter 6 beat, step in and hit in the bottom of the mask - it does not hurt - just freaks idiots out.

[Sean Butler]

In the 80s before electric sabre, we often had to make a sound when we landed a cut or the corner judges might miss it. This led to sabre cuts landing overly hard more often than not. As might be expected, there were many whip-overs from parrying "flat-bladed" attacks and other such meanness. Sabre fencers back then did deliver their attacks with some amount of pain. I came home from nationals each year with the right side of my back looking like I had been scourged from all the whipovers. I am pretty sure I caused a few of those on others too, though it wasn't intentional.

What was different then than now is that no sabre fencer would dream of complaining about the pain he received from a bad parry or a hard attack. Who would want to acknowledge to the judges that he had been hit, right? So yeah, we had some toughness. Do I think that this kind of fencing was a good thing? No, it sucked ass! If I wanted a painful contact sport, I'd have taken up boxing or karate, or something.

I think that your purposeful infliction of pain on your opponents is a bit barbaric. If you cannot win without such tactics, then it sounds like you are being a sore loser, if you ask me. (pardon the pun, lol) By inflicting pain, you are changing the fight from one of pure skill and athleticism to one of fear, intimidation, and pain. There is nothing ethical about it and I think anyone caught doing it intentionally should be dealt with as your name implies.

[Hobbes]

I had a fencer pull the "bad flick" thing a couple times in a match one time. I gave him the benefit of the doubt after the first couple attempts, assuming he was just a bad flicker. However, he kept going until he got me on the thumb. It hurt very badly, and I could not hold my blade right for the rest of the match. Turns out he broke the thing.

Off the strip, while my mother (a doctor, and attending her first fencing tournament) and another medic were checking my thumb out, the dude walked right up behind me and looked over my shoulder at the thumb. He did not say a word of apology or acknowledgment, just walked away nodding.

The guy ruined my fencing for the day because besides the pain, I was really pissed off. Icing on the cake was that he also knocked me out in DEs, and was not "sportsman like" during the match.

This thread makes me think back on that tournament, and I have to admit that unless this is a joke topic, BlackCard (and fencers of a similar mindset) is essentially the worst thing that can happen to our sport. Just think of how many times you have told a beginner that it doesn't hurt that bad. What happens when they go to a tournament and they are "intimidated" by someone that thinks it is ok to inflict pain, as long as they are not injuring.

[rory]

Inflict pain as a tactic? No.

Body check someone who's fencing rough? Yes.
Draw corps-a-corps to get the opponent carded? Yes.

And I'm afraid anyone who cheats by ducking (head down) is liable to feel a fairly un-gentle flick down the middle of their back... whether it's likely to get the hit or not.

[Craig]

black card fences for Kobra Kai

"Sweep the leg Johnny!"

[Fechter1]

Thanks for the laugh, I really neede that...

I guess some people think that brutality (which is really what the OP is crowing about) is a substitute for skill... However, that kind of attitude just demonstrates that you have neither skill nor class...

One problem with that approach is that it's really quite easy to turn the tables.
For example: got a heavy flicker? Just put out a stophit to his pinky from below. (Or a quick fleche to the mask whenever you see him winding up for the flick) That, however, is an easy recipe for a broken finger...
Got someone who likes to fleche through you? A duck and low line stop should take care of that problem really quick.

There are many (maaaaany) more of these 'extracurriculars' that I know of, from the hidden hipcheck to send you into the stands to the pinning stophit to the foot (sending you tumbling past), but I'll keep some in the secret toybox, just in case.

Not that I would intentionally use any of these without provocation... I usually try for the light, clean touches, even though I have the physical stature to be quite inmposing on strip. (I've even scared my opponents off the back of the strip once or twice... )

$.02

[Bryn Ralph]

Black Card, I applaud your braggadoccio; however, an epee bout with an Italian Olympic fencer would cool your ardour.

It appears that you have neglected to read the USFA Fencing Handbook regarding behaviour on the piste.

Bryn Ralph