Let's Get Physical!

[ESLyon]

Speaking as a newbie fencer who used to do historical reenactment fencing...

My old group prized point and blade control above almost every other skill, how lightly you could hit you opponent was considered a great intimidation factor, because it essentially said "I have complete control over you and our fighting situation and I don't need to run you through to show you I can beat you". To me, someone who is fast and stops their point directly on target (my chest, face, etc.) is way more intimidating that someone who tries to skewer me. This may be because I am used to pain (did gymnastics for 8 years), and also I believe that if you are willing to dish something out you shold be willing to take it. I'm not saying I'm better than black card, in fact I'm sure he would probably whoop me pretty good, but not before I get a few nice hits of my own in.

[epeelion]

::sigh::

Guys, either he's a troll or an idiot. Either way, why respond? Let the topic die.

[Guymelef]

Has anyone seen bc in daylight?

[jkdjeff]

Troll or not, I am sure there are people that think the way he does, and that is unfortunate.

MMA is that way ------->

[Grasshopper]

Originally Posted by jkdjeff

Troll or not, I am sure there are people that think the way he does, and that is unfortunate.

MMA is that way ------->

Ah. yeah because you win by knocking your opponent out in MMA. Sometimes that requires a little pain.

[crquack]

Forgetting for a moment the question of sportsmanship, rules etc., I wonder if this tactic actually works with any frequency.

My experience from fencing and previous unmentionable activities is that when the excreta hit the fan the pain sensation goes way down.

The same injury that sends me howling to the floor in the bathroom will, in a fight, register as mild annoyance and an additional motivation to take the other guy's head off.

I would have thought it counterproductive...

[Grasshopper]

Originally Posted by crquack

The same injury that sends me howling to the floor in the bathroom will, in a fight, register as mild annoyance and an additional motivation to take the other guy's head off.

Dude, what exactly are you doing to yourself in the bathroom?

[epeelion]

Go ahead guys, fence Seth Kelsey or Isaac Erbele or Cody Mattern that way. See how far physicality gets you against an Army or Navy athlete. Or any other high level athlete in fencing (keep in mind most of the Asian and European athletes are members of the army as well). We'll see how well it works.

[Codex]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

Dude, what exactly are you doing to yourself in the bathroom?

Ignorance is bliss.

[veeco]

Wow. So you're basically fencing the way Cerioni did? You didn't invent anything, I'm afraid.

I chipped a guy's tooth, once, by taking prime at close quarters and "accidentally" bell punching someone in the mask. My sister broke a 40 year old's rib when she hit someone a little too hard. I don't think she did it on purpose, but it was deserved.

[black card]

why does everyone think i am trying to troll? i am not telling you that i am going to do this to you, i am just acknowledging as part of the game for some people (like myself) and wanted a discussion on it.

i am not threatening to take your lunch money, people. snap out of the flashback.

when i troll, you will know it.

[epeelion]

why does everyone think i am trying to troll?

Oh, we think you're trying to troll because you're advocating purposely trying to hurt someone in the course of a sport where it is unnecessary and inefficient, and because we'd rather believe that someone is trolling to get a rise out of us than acknowledge that there is someone with as despicable of a viewpoint as you.

You ARE saying you will do it to us, and you are NOT simply acknowledging that it is part of the game. Gamesmanship is part of the game, not maliciousness. Besides that, you admitted you ADORE that aspect. But I'll get to that later.

Hip checks and such are one thing. They are part of gamesmanship. But, for instance, if my opponent's leg is cramped, I will not hit it over and over to hurt him/her more. I will, of course, move more because I know they cannot keep up. This is a much smarter, less risky, and more efficient way of dealing with the situation.

You're just a douchebag.

Again, bumping someone a bit as a tactical/gamesmanship move is one thing, especially if the same is being done to you. What crosses into the ridiculous, for instance, is the suggestion of "headbutting" being a legitimate tactic. Or, for instance, this:

A personal favorite of mine is using a "bad" flick to numb up a weapon arm. I also adore sabre because of the pain-inflicting potential.

This sh*te is just downright creepy. You purposely hit people wrong to hurt them? You adore a weapon because you get more of a chance to hurt people? Are you KIDDING ME?!
Go box. Then you can hit people RIGHT and the IDEA is to hurt them (even then, of course, boxers often have much respect for each other and salute each other).

This is ignoring the fact, of course, that it is illegal to hit people maliciously (bumping is not, until it gets to the level of jostling. That's how epee works). And, of course, doing something illegal is cheating. But that wouldn't worry you of course.

Inflicting pain purposefully is a low tactic, and I PROMISE you that if you do it to any high level fencer they will find, as Fechter1 has said, much more efficient ways to retaliate. And they will be legal.

Grow up.

[black card]

Originally Posted by epeelion

Oh, we think you're trying to troll because you're advocating purposely trying to hurt someone in the course of a sport where it is unnecessary and inefficient, and because we'd rather believe that someone is trolling to get a rise out of us than acknowledge that there is someone with as despicable of a viewpoint as you.

You ARE saying you will do it to us, and you are NOT simply acknowledging that it is part of the game. Gamesmanship is part of the game, not maliciousness. Besides that, you admitted you ADORE that aspect. But I'll get to that later.

Hip checks and such are one thing. They are part of gamesmanship. But, for instance, if my opponent's leg is cramped, I will not hit it over and over to hurt him/her more. I will, of course, move more because I know they cannot keep up. This is a much smarter, less risky, and more efficient way of dealing with the situation.

You're just a douchebag.

Again, bumping someone a bit as a tactical/gamesmanship move is one thing, especially if the same is being done to you. What crosses into the ridiculous, for instance, is the suggestion of "headbutting" being a legitimate tactic. Or, for instance, this:


This sh*te is just downright creepy. You purposely hit people wrong to hurt them? You adore a weapon because you get more of a chance to hurt people? Are you KIDDING ME?!
Go box. Then you can hit people RIGHT and the IDEA is to hurt them (even then, of course, boxers often have much respect for each other and salute each other).

This is ignoring the fact, of course, that it is illegal to hit people maliciously (bumping is not, until it gets to the level of jostling. That's how epee works). And, of course, doing something illegal is cheating. But that wouldn't worry you of course.

Inflicting pain purposefully is a low tactic, and I PROMISE you that if you do it to any high level fencer they will find, as Fechter1 has said, much more efficient ways to retaliate. And they will be legal.

Grow up.

thats a lot of words right there. i didnt read all of them but there sure are a lot

[epeelion]

Ohh, good rebuttal.

[H Man]

I would not expect BC to have the attention span to read more than a comic strip.

But, to have the intention to inflict pain and then commit the act is a crime, not a sporting endevor. There are two ends to all spectrums and it is clear which one BC sits on, luckly, a minority.

[Sean Butler]

Originally Posted by black card

[...] i am just acknowledging as part of the game for some people (like myself) and wanted a discussion on it.

Ok, here is the end of the discussion: It is not part of the game ... for anyone.

(USFA Rule t.20)
"In all three weapons it is forbidden for a fencer to cause corps à corps intentionally to avoid being touched, or to jostle the opponent."

[Fechter1]

Originally Posted by epeelion

Inflicting pain purposefully is a low tactic, and I PROMISE you that if you do it to any high level fencer they will find, as Fechter1 has said, much more efficient ways to retaliate. And they will be legal.

Very good point on the legality of the examples I mentioned.

At this point I should probably point out that i do not fence to inflict pain. If possible, I like to try for the clean, light touch (The best touch is one the opponent doesn't even feel). I was merely pointing out that skilled fencers have the means to turn your displays of brute strength around and use them to let you hurt yourself.

There have, however, been a few times (very few, I can remember only 2 at this time), when I have lost my temper, and retaliated. Not something I'm proud of, but it happened. Both times my opponent stopped fencing for the day. If you think that hurting people is a legitimate tactic, expect to be on the receiving end of a few hard hits yourself.

P.S. I'm not trying to feed the troll. This was for the benefit of those fencers who might see the OP's tactics as promising.

[Rockstar44]

I think that Black Card's signature says it all....

[erooMynohtnA]

BC is a troll. I don't think anyone is arguing with that. However, I wouldn't really call this a trolling thread. As BC said, when he's trolling, you'll know it. He hasn't proven to be very subtle.

I think this is a legitimate topic. Refusing to discuss it because BC is a troll is stupid. You're not punishing him. You're just wasting intertubes.

Whether or not you support it, it happens. I've seen it. I've had it happen to me. I don't expect anyone to share their dirty little tricks, the same way I wouldn't expect someone to share how they modify their epee to pass shims falsely. It doesn't mean you can't discuss the topic at hand instead of alternating posts proving that brutality is illegal and pointing out that BC has said mean things.

Hurting someone can be a really good (illegal) tactic. Through getting them angry or scared, you can break their concentration. Obviously mental and physical toughness are the way to defeat it, but say you're dealing with a person who has neither, how do you handle it?

I've seen a kid get nailed hard, and he completely lost focus. He was scared of getting hit hard again, and he was mad and wanted to inflict pain on the other fencer. What do you say to that kid as a strip coach? Or better yet, how do you train him so that he can get over it if he doesn't have anyone strip coaching him?

[Welted 24/7]

Hurting someone can be a really good (illegal) tactic. Through getting them angry or scared, you can break their concentration. Obviously mental and physical toughness are the way to defeat it, but say you're dealing with a person who has neither, how do you handle it?

Getting someone angry or scared is a legit mental tactic, yes. But if they're not mentally or physically tough enough to handle getting hit hard in what's nominally a combat sport, what are the odds that they're mentally tough enough to deal with getting 4 or 5 straight touches reeled off against them? My problem with this as an idea is that there are other, equally as effective ways of screwing with someone's head without causing them unnecessary injury.

In my experiences, directors know when you're being a bully, and are a lot less likely to card the opponent who winds up and decks you because you were being a prick.