McCain has chosen Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate.
She is 44! Three years younger than Obama!
So far McCain camp criticizes Obama the most is that Obama is too young and too inexperince (foreign policy, defense matters, etc.), yet he picks someone who is even younger and with even less experince on those issues (at least Obama travels and talks to leaders, she stays in Alaska mostly).
Where is the logic? Has McCain camp gone nuts?
*If Obama hires me, I would have a field day on this...
__________________
"Agh, that's roping milk." -Mr. R. Johson, October 22nd, 2008
Vetted: Under investigation by her own legislature
Experience:
Been gov of a tiny state for a bit
Was part time mayor of a town of 6000 before that
Really young
Appealing candidate:
Beauty contestant
Woman
Creationist
Anti-abortion
Family values - Husband and 5 kids including an infant at home
Sounds perfect?
There must be something here, but I sure don't see it.
I don't see how this attracts the Independents he needs to win.
__________________ M2: Everything is true. GP: Even false things? M2: Even false things are true. GP: How can that be? M2: I don't know man, I didn't do it.
- from an interview with Malaclypse the Younger
¯\(°_o)/¯
Last edited by magic_moose; 08-29-2008 at 01:26 PM..
I think it is a semi-smart move to try to gain those who were Hilary's camp. Okay, so maybe not the first female President, but the first female VP. On that same front he crashes Obama's first black President because a win either way will be historic. That said, I'm still not sure why it was THIS woman.
L
__________________
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McCain went by the balance metric. The GOP ticket is now balanced by:
1. Gender
2. Age
3. North-South
4. Legislative-Executive branch
If her wikipedia entry is anything to go by, she should shore up the conservative base. It appears that the McCain team thinks that identity politics are important to voters. Considering the Dem primary votes for African-American males vs. Caucasian females, I would think that they are doing the rational call.
Another observation:
This time around, no one on the major party tickets have any pretense of representing the south. The Bush candidates have portrayed themselves as Texans, and by extension southerners. If you count them in as representing the south, then this will be the first time since 72 since no one of the major tickets (then, Nixon/Agnew vs. McGovern/Shriver) had any real claim on representing the south. Wonder how Caucasian southerners will take that, and what it will do to the voter turnout there.
Appealing candidate:
Beauty contestant
Woman
Creationist
Anti-abortion
Family values - Husband and 5 kids including an infant at home
Sounds perfect?
There must be something here, but I sure don't see it.
I don't see how this attracts the Independents he needs to win.
My guess is that McCain is not going for the independent vote, but for the female vote. If one assumes that there a significant proportion of the voting females vote more for their own gender, rather than Democrat values per se, this may be the magic pill which flips the election. Perfectly rational decision if that voter segment is large enough.
As an added benefit, there is no obvious counter available to the Dem ticket. What are they to do in order to woo back voters who value a female on the ticket over all else? Field Hillary as a high-profile election worker? Would only serve to highlight divisions within the democrats, and might well rub a lot of female voters who previously were campaigning for her the wrong way.
If this works out for the GOP, it also has a long-term benefit. The fallout from a lost election will create long-term bad blood between African-Americans and females, traditionally strong democrat voter bases. That discord can then be used by the 2012 (and 2016, and...) GOP campaigns.
I will be reading up a lot on this, heading off to Slate now.
This kind of surprised me too. I read today that they were going after the disaffected Hillary supporters with this choice.
Doesn't make any sense to me.
However:
Let's consider those qualifications:
Sarah Palin
Point guard and captain of her HS basketball team
Head of her high school chapter of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes
1984 Winner of the Miss Wasilla Pageant
1984 Runner-up in the Miss Alaska Pageant
1984 Winner of Miss Congeniality Award
Degree in Journalism from University of Idaho, minor in Poli-Sci
Sports reporter for an Alaskan TV station
City Council Wasilla, AK - Current population approximately 8,400
Mayor Wasilla, AK - Current population approximately 8,400
Governor of Alaska - 2006 population approximately 670,000
Alaska: only 2 other states have lower populations.
Alaska: Lowest population density in the US
Alaska: comprising .22% of the US population.
Alaska: a population density lower than Mongolia. In fact, only two countries have lower population densities - Greenland and the Falkland islands, neither of which are even real countries anyway (colonies of European imperialism).
Alaska: there are 19 cities in the US with a greater population.
National Rifle Association Lifetime Member
Rotary International Honorary Member
Rabidly pro-life
Husband works for the oil companies
Yeah, that'll work.
Paolo
__________________
"He is a man of splendid abilities but utterly corrupt. He shines and stinks like rotten mackerel by moonlight." "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats."
Before even discussing the VP candidate herself, the comparison of managing the release of the VP name between Obama and McCain is interesting, and summed up pretty well in this article. Bottom line, McCain kept suspense and speculation high for some time, drawing media attention away from reporting on Obama's speech, while Obama raised hopes with his promises of a text announcement, and then flubbed it by leaking the decision early and sending the text out a 3am (or something).
As for the candidate herself...she's certainly an interesting pick, and I think she'll add to McCain's attempts to portray himself as a "maverick". She's earned a reputation for getting things accomplished in her short tenure in Alaska, is pretty conservative overall, but has broken with the party on a few issues, which may help appeal to moderate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wikipedia
Highlights of Governor Palin's tenure include a successful push for an ethics bill, and also shelving pork-barrel projects supported by fellow Republicans. After federal funding for the Gravina Island Bridge project that had become a nationwide symbol of wasteful earmark spending was lost, Palin decided against filling the over $200 million gap with state money.[10][11] "Alaska needs to be self-sufficient, she says, instead of relying heavily on 'federal dollars,' as the state does today."[12]
She has challenged the state's Republican leaders, helping to launch a campaign by Lieutenant Governor Sean Parnell to unseat U.S. Congressman Don Young[13] and publicly challenging Senator Ted Stevens to come clean about the federal investigation into his financial dealings.[10]
I think a record like that could be sold pretty successfully to the public as an actual example of positive change, instead of just talking about accomplishing it.
Let's look at some of the critiques:
Quote:
Originally Posted by magic_moose
Vetted: Under investigation by her own legislature
Obviously this raises red flags, but you've got to believe the vetting process has determined there's no threat in it. She fired someone she has complete authority to fire, and there are allegations (that can never be proved) that it may have been done for personal reasons? Meh...I don't think it'll go anywhere.
Let's look at wiki again:
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiki
Monegan alleged shortly after his dismissal that it may have been partly due to his reluctance to fire an Alaska State Trooper, Mike Wooten, who had been involved in a divorce and child custody battle with Palin's sister, Molly McCann.[44] In 2006, before Palin was governor, Wooten was briefly suspended for ten days for threatening to kill McCann's (and Palin's) father, tasering his 11-year-old stepson (at the stepson's request), and violating game laws. After a union protest, the suspension was reduced to five days.[45]
Even if it is true, it looks good to me...she's portraying herself as someone who gets things done and cleans up corruption, and taking on a union strong-arming to keep a policeman who issues death threats, breaks the law and tasers children isn't going to hurt her much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by magic_moose
Experience:
Been gov of a tiny state for a bit
Was part time mayor of a town of 6000 before that
Really young
Democrats are going to have to be really careful on this. She's the VP, not the top spot, and any attempts to portray her as unready automatically bring Obama to mind, too. Barack has served at the Federal level (senate) only slightly longer than Palin has been a governor, and Palin easily has more accomplishments to show during this timeframe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by magic_moose
Appealing candidate:
Beauty contestant
Woman
Creationist
Anti-abortion
Family values - Husband and 5 kids including an infant at home
Uh...I think you're focusing a bit too much on the superficial here. There's a lot here that will energize the Republican base (NRA, religion) and a lot that will appeal to moderates as well (drilling, anti-corruption efforts against Alaskan Republicans).
Besides, Palin will have an easier time passing herself as a regular American than Obama or Biden. Not Ivy League, has held some fairly menial jobs and worked her way up...that's a story people can relate to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by magic_moose
Sounds perfect?
There must be something here, but I sure don't see it.
I don't see how this attracts the Independents he needs to win.
Not perfect, but a good gamble. She also tempts the Democrats to attack her on certain things that will ultimately make them look worse, either by comparison (again, hitting her on experience continues to bring up Obama's lack thereof) or by countering their standard talking points (I'm already reading things about "how could she run for VP while taking care of a young child"?). Hitting her on something like that, that goes against the progressive/feminine mantra, could hurt the Democrats, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidLazy
McCain has chosen Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate.
She is 44! Three years younger than Obama!
Astute observation. Most of the criticism towards Obama has been about his lack of experince, not really his age.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidLazy
So far McCain camp criticizes Obama the most is that Obama is too young and too inexperince (foreign policy, defense matters, etc.), yet he picks someone who is even younger and with even less experince on those issues (at least Obama travels and talks to leaders, she stays in Alaska mostly).
Again, she's the VP nominee, not the top. Sure, it could be an issue, but I don't think the Dems dare tread there too much. As for experience, she's the only candidate of the bunch with any executive experience, and I'd have to imagine a State like Alaska demands a decent amount of coordination with Canada, which easily gives her more practical diplomatic experience than Obama's occasional visits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philistine
Apparently, the VP picks have shown the importance of states with 3 electoral votes....
Actually, I think this is a good thing. Gore helped show that the VP slot really has minimal impact on voters from a home state, and if McCain wants to keep up his "maverick" image, why pick the nominee everyone expects, for the same old reasons that don't ever really work?
This choice is pretty shrewd, and could keep a lot of media attention and water cooler talk on the Republicans, maybe up until the convention. I think that will only help the GOP ticket in the polls.
Governor of Alaska - 2006 population approximately 670,000
Alaska: only 2 other states have lower populations.
Alaska: Lowest population density in the US
Alaska: comprising .22% of the US population.
Alaska: a population density lower than Mongolia. In fact, only two countries have lower population densities - Greenland and the Falkland islands, neither of which are even real countries anyway (colonies of European imperialism).
Alaska: there are 19 cities in the US with a greater population.
National Rifle Association Lifetime Member
Rotary International Honorary Member
Rabidly pro-life
Husband works for the oil companies
Yeah, that'll work.
Dude, do you have any idea how complicated it is to govern a state, let alone one as large, and with as many unique situations, as Alaska? She's got all sorts of oddball natural resources, a foreign boundary (and Russia's close, too), a large and unique native population with special considerations...her job is 10x as demanding as a freshman senator's. I mean, list some key accomplishments from Obama's Senate term.....key bills he authored, committee chairmanships he's held, anything like that will do fine.
As for the rest of the list, it's largely irrelevant.
Again, she's the VP nominee, not the top. Sure, it could be an issue, but I don't think the Dems dare tread there too much. As for experience, she's the only candidate of the bunch with any executive experience, and I'd have to imagine a State like Alaska demands a decent amount of coordination with Canada, which easily gives her more practical diplomatic experience than Obama's occasional visits.
If elected, she will be the President-In-Waiting. If too young and too inexperience is bad, then why would even younger and even less experience be good? If you think a 5 years B fencer won't have a good result in Div1 NAC, what makes you think a two year E could do better? What's wrong with McCain's logic?
__________________
"Agh, that's roping milk." -Mr. R. Johson, October 22nd, 2008
As for the rest of the list, it's largely irrelevant.
Well I think you were missing the point that if the idea was to attract disaffected Hilary voters it is hard to see where exactly her position match with that aim.
Unless, of course, the republicans are treating women as a monolithic bloc who will vote on gender regardless of policy positions.
If elected, she will be the President-In-Waiting. If too young and too inexperience is bad, then why would even younger and even less experience be good? If you think a 5 years B fencer won't have a good result in Div1 NAC, what makes you think a two year E could do better? What's wrong with McCain's logic?
His logic is working fine. Again, while her government experience is as limited as Obama's, it's focused on executive branch positions (mayor, governor), while Obama's isn't. I think McCain picked her as a dare, as much as anything else...please, PLEASE make experience the defining issue of this campaign, because it'll hurt the democrats more.
Other than that, she's a strong conservative with a bit of a maverick streak. Being female certainly gives the McCain campaign something "historic" to offer, too. Unfortunately, I think there are some voters out there that are shallow enough to vote for someone based off of race or gender (or against), and Obama has already played-up the significance of electing him to send a message and make history...so McCain wants to take away from that being a Democrat-only issue.
OK, great opening salvo. Now I know what I'm dealing with.
Quote:
do you have any idea how complicated it is to govern a state, let alone one as large, and with as many unique situations, as Alaska?
Yes, I do. Do you? So, are you stating that all US governors are possessed of a gigantic intellect, enabling them to single-handedly manage "complicated" things?
She's an executive. That's what governors are. My point is that as large as Alaska is geographically, it doesn't really prepare one adequately for a nation of over 300 million after only 2 years at the helm of a state with a tiny population.
Quote:
She's got all sorts of oddball natural resources,
What's an "oddball" natural resource? And, why are they odder than others? I personally have always found sorghum and flax to be oddball resources because I don't know what they are.
Quote:
a foreign boundary (and Russia's close, too),
That's the Fed's domain. Also WA, MT, ND, MI, NY, VT NH and ME all have foreign borders to the North. TX, NM, AZ and CA to the South. It's not unique.
Quote:
a large and unique native population with special considerations...
Not that large: just under 125K combined Native population. California has over 625K, Oklahoma, over 390K
Quote:
her job is 10x as demanding as a freshman senator's.
OK, please expound here.
Quote:
I mean, list some key accomplishments from Obama's Senate term.....key bills he authored, committee chairmanships he's held, anything like that will do fine.
Go here and check for yourself. I leave it to you to separate the wheat from the chaff. As with all government procedures, there's a lot of fluff.
As for the rest of the list, it's largely irrelevant.
Well, in a sense, yes. For some reason, you are comparing Palin to Obama. This, of course, is faulty. She should be compared to Joe Biden who is the Democratic VP candidate.
The rest of list is hardly irrelevant. What we have here is an underexperienced, backwater reared, mediocrely educated, TV sportscaster, gun toting, anti-choice, creationist former beauty queen who wants to be one heartbeat from assuming the most powerful position in the world.
And to think that people knocked Hillary.
That worries me.
'Course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
Paolo
__________________
"He is a man of splendid abilities but utterly corrupt. He shines and stinks like rotten mackerel by moonlight." "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats."
[QUOTE=damianip;728534]
Yes, I do. Do you? So, are you stating that all US governors are possessed of a gigantic intellect, enabling them to single-handedly manage "complicated" things?
[/quote]
That's not what I'm saying at all. If the only thing that mattered in governing was intellect, we'd take a simple IQ test and let the highest score win. I'm saying the job of "governor" is more challenging and demanding than that of "senator", and even more challenging than that of a freshman senator. A freshman senator has less responsibility of committees and less clout to accomplish things, while the full responsibilities for a governor start on day 1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by damianip
She's an executive. That's what governors are. My point is that as large as Alaska is geographically, it doesn't really prepare one adequately for a nation of over 300 million after only 2 years at the helm of a state with a tiny population.
But being a senator for 4 years does prepare one adequately? You can try to play that game, and some will believe it, but the position of governor is a better breeding ground for success as a president, as it's the exact same position at the next level down. You'll note modern history has a distinct trend for former governors to become presidents, and congressmen to fail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by damianip
That's the Fed's domain. Also WA, MT, ND, MI, NY, VT NH and ME all have foreign borders to the North. TX, NM, AZ and CA to the South. It's not unique.
Again, I didn't claim it was unique, just another piece of experience she has that Obama (or Biden) doesn't. And while you can say international relations are the Fed's domain (correct), I have to imagine a state bordering a foreign nation has some sort of special agencies and personnel to deal with the unique problems and situations that can arise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by damianip
Not that large: just under 125K combined Native population. California has over 625K, Oklahoma, over 390K
Once again, I didn't claim she had the largest Native population, but a sizable one with unique considerations (VERY remote areas, special hunting (whale!) privileges, etc). Something a president will have to deal with, and which Obama has no experience dealing with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by damianip
Well, in a sense, yes. For some reason, you are comparing Palin to Obama. This, of course, is faulty. She should be compared to Joe Biden who is the Democratic VP candidate.
I can compare whomever I want. The inexperienced VP pick of the GOP party is more qualified for the position of POTUS than the Democratic prez nominee. Not by a lot, but by a comfortable margin. If I were reviewing resumes for the position, it would be a no-brainer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by damianip
The rest of list is hardly irrelevant. What we have here is an underexperienced, backwater reared, mediocrely educated, TV sportscaster, gun toting, anti-choice, creationist former beauty queen who wants to be one heartbeat from assuming the most powerful position in the world.
And this kind of talk will kill the Democratic party. Ham up that "backwater reared, mediocrely educated, TV sportscaster, gun toting" stuff. Most of America (and many former presidents) were "backwater reared", not everyone can afford to go to an Ivy League school, most people start with regular jobs (I believe Reagan may have had a stint on sports radio....) and most Americans support the right to own firearms. This smug, elitist vein of the progressive wing of the Democratic party is what will ruin any chances of getting moderate American voters, and therefore, this election.
Obama shouldn't be penalized for being fortunate enough to get admitted to an Ivy League and be able to afford it, but the other 99% of Americans that didn't go there shouldn't be automatically labeled as morons, either.
And now, for the rest of the story (as it exceeded the forum character limit):
Quote:
Originally Posted by damianip
OK, please expound here.
Let's look at the responsibilities of the two positions:
Governor:
Commander in Chief of military personnel (National Guard)
Responsible for various State law enforcement agencies and personnel
Develops and rehearses emergency action plans for various natural disasters
Responds to said emergencies as they occur (using above agencies and feds)
Signs or vetoes legislation
Responsible for the proper management of State parks and wildlife
Heck, oversees multiple government agencies consisting of thousands of employees that are responsible for everything from infrastructure maintenance, education, health and human services, unemployment support, business relations....well, let's just copy the list from the State's website. As governor, she's responsible for the proper administration of ALL of these agencies, and if something is screwed up, the blame ultimately falls on her:
Department of Administration
Alaska Public Broadcasting Commission
Division of Administrative Services
Enterprise Technology Services
Division of Finance
Division of General Services
Division of Motor Vehicles--On-line Services
Division of Personnel and Labor Relations
Division of Retirement and Benefits
Division of Risk Management
Office of Equal Employment Opportunity
Office of Public Advocacy
Office of Administrative Hearings
Oil and Gas Conservation Commission
Public Defender Agency
Public Offices Commission - APOC
Training and Development
Violent Crimes Compensation Board
Department of Commerce, Community &
Economic Development
Alaska Aerospace Development Corporation
Alaska Energy Authority
Alaska Industrial Development and Export Authority
Alaska Railroad Corporation
Alaska Seafood Marketing Institute
Alaska State Community Service Commission
Division of Administrative Services
Division of Banking and Securities
Division of Community & Regional Affairs
Division of Insurance
Division of Investments
Division of Corporations, Business and Professional Licensing
Office of the Commissioner
Office of Economic Development
Office of International Trade (in Governor's Office)
Regulatory Commission of Alaska
Department of Corrections
Division of Administrative Services
Division of Probation and Parole
Division of Institutions
Parole Board
Department of Education and Early Development
Commission on Postsecondary Education (Alaska Student Loans)
Division of Libraries, Archives & Museums
SLED (Statewide Library Electronic Doorway)
State Council on the Arts
Office of the Commissioner
Department of Environmental Conservation
Division of Air Quality
Division of Environmental Health
Division of Information and Administrative Services
Division of Spill Prevention & Response
Division of Water
Department of Fish and Game
Administrative Services
Boards Support
Commercial Fisheries
Commercial Fisheries (Limited) Entry Commission
Habitat
Sport Fish
Subsistence
Wildlife Conservation
Department of Health and Social Services
Finance and Management Services
Alaska Commission on Aging
Alaska Pioneer Homes
Alaska Mental Health Board
Behavioral Health
Governor's Advisory Board on Alcoholism & Drug Abuse
Governor's Council on Disabilities & Special Education
Health Care Services
Juvenile Justice
Office of Children's Services
Office of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome
Public Assistance
Public Health
Senior and Disabilities Services
Department of Labor and Workforce Development
Office of the Commissioner
Administrative Services Division
Alaska Vocational Technical Center
Alaska Workforce Investment Board
Business Partnerships Division
Employment Offices
Employment Security Division
Labor Relations Agency
Labor Standards and Safety
Research and Analysis Section
Vocational Rehabilitation Division
Workers' Compensation Division
Department of Law
Administrative Services
Attorney General's Office
Civil Division
Consumer Protection
Criminal Division
Document Library
Environmental Crimes Unit
Department of Military & Veterans Affairs
Administrative Services
Alaska Air National Guard
Alaska Army National Guard
Alaska Military Youth Academy
Division of Emergency Services
Division of Homeland Security
Facilities Maintenance Office
Naval Militia
State Defense Force
Veterans Affairs
Department of Natural Resources
Alaska Mental Health Trust Land Office
Division of Agriculture
Division of Coastal and Ocean Management
Division of Forestry
Division of Geological & Geophysical Surveys
Division of Mining, Land and Water
Division of Oil and Gas
Division of Parks and Outdoor Recreation
Division of Support Services
Joint Pipeline Office
Office of Habitat Management and Permitting
Office of Project Management and Permitting
Public Information Center
Recorder's Office/UCC
Department of Public Safety
Alaska Police Standards Council
Alaska State Crime Lab
Alcoholic Beverage Control Board
Amber Alert
Commissioner's Office
Council on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault
Division of Administrative Services
Division of Alaska State Troopers
Division of Fire & Life Safety
Division of Statewide Services
Division of Wildlife Troopers
Sex Offender/Child Kidnapper Central Registry
State Fire Marshal's Office
Department of Revenue
Alaska Housing Finance Corporation
Alaska Mental Health Trust Authority
Office of the Long Term Care Ombudsman
Alaska Permanent Fund Corporation
Alaska Retirement Management Board
Alaska Municipal Bond Bank Authority
Division of Administrative Services
Division of Child Support Services
Division of Permanent Fund Dividend
Division of Treasury
Office of the Commissioner
Tax Division
Unclaimed Property Searchable Database
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities
And a freshman senator's job consists of.....voting and sitting in on various hearings/committees? Yeah, they're pretty comparable
And hey! While scrolling through the above agencies, I found this little gem: Office of International Trade (in Governor's Office)
I'm sure it must be a typo or something, as the governor of some po-dunk state obviously has nothing to do with foreign nations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by damianip
Go here and check for yourself. I leave it to you to separate the wheat from the chaff. As with all government procedures, there's a lot of fluff.
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