Snide remarks because Obama keeps mocking Palin's lack of experience, but often refers to his time as a "community organizer" as meaningful experience for his presidential run. As mentioned above, his stint as a community organizer accomplished nothing of significance...just like the rest of his political career. Considering politics s pretty much the only job experience he has, that's pretty sad.
And please feel free to keep using the "Jesus was a community organizer" line. As if there weren't enough jokes floating around about Obama having a Messiah complex...that will just continue to maintain that meme.
I don't mind a debate about the usefulness of what Obama accomplished at any point in his career. That's useful and fair and pertinent.
But that's not what happened at the Republican convention. While the Democrats made a point to honor John McCain's public service, numerous speakers derrided Obama's public service. Not how competent he was, but that he did it at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah Palin
I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a "community organizer," except that you have actual responsibilities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy Giuliani
On the other hand, you have a resume from a gifted man with an Ivy League education. He worked as a community organizer. What? He worked — I said — I said, OK, OK, maybe this is the first problem on the resume.
Those aren't about him doing the job poorly, those are about him choosing to do the job.
Public service is to be celebrated and encouraged. People have strengths and weaknesses-- and serving our country and the people in it may be done by volunteering at a soup kitchen, teaching in an inner city school, joining the millitary, or visiting the elderly. It can be done while holding another job, or it can be your job. Through a program like Americorps or Teach for America, or by other means....
But isn't public service what Barack Obama AND John McCain are doing as senators? Couldn't Obama be making more as a lawyer? And McCain certainly isn't doing it for the money either.
Say it wasn't successful, that's a useful conversation. But deriding the idea? That's hurtful to the people in this world who are trying to make a difference. And it's mean, and spiteful, and was out of place.
I heard a lot more booing at the Republican convention than the Democratic. Obama made the case that things as they are should change, and he made it to a much larger crowd, and there wasn't the booing. That, my friends, is a very good speech writing staff.
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Try to ban books!? Try to fire the librarian for not supporting it!?
This stuff from is simply tiresome. Both parties are full of a bunch of Kool Aid drinkers
From fact check:
"She did not demand that books be banned from the Wasilla library. Some of the books on a widely circulated list were not even in print at the time. The librarian has said Palin asked a "What if?" question, but the librarian continued in her job through most of Palin's first term."
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Last edited by latenight; 09-12-2008 at 11:47 AM..
Originally Posted by John Mercurio, National Journal
John McCain's campaign recently declared that the sky is red, with green and yellow polka dots. Armed with binders full of research and a New York Times op-ed, Barack Obama angrily jabbed his finger at the sky and countered that it is blue. McCain's campaign accused Obama of anti-skyism. Cable TV talkers spent the next 48 hours debating the color of the sky and Obama's anti-skyist tendencies.
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"Agh, that's roping milk." -Mr. R. Johson, October 22nd, 2008
Last edited by KidLazy; 09-12-2008 at 12:27 PM..
Reason: link
"She did not demand that books be banned from the Wasilla library. Some of the books on a widely circulated list were not even in print at the time. The librarian has said Palin asked a "What if?" question, but the librarian continued in her job through most of Palin's first term."
Because people stood up to her.
Quote:
Palin notified Emmons she would be fired in January 1997 because the mayor didn't feel she had the librarian's "full support." Emmons was reinstated the next day after public outcry, according to newspaper reports at the time.
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"Agh, that's roping milk." -Mr. R. Johson, October 22nd, 2008
First of all, the "list of books to be banned" is nothing more than a list of books that have previously been banned during America's history, which has been bumming around the internet for years.
It got pasted to one of those wacko emails that extreme partisans on both sides are so adept at sending. The story got picked up and reported as true, without fact-checking, for whatever reason.
The librarian herself has denied it.
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Just because you have the right, that doesn't mean it is right.
First of all, the "list of books to be banned" is nothing more than a list of books that have previously been banned during America's history, which has been bumming around the internet for years.
How come its possible for unpublished books to be previously banned during America's history, for years?
They are unpublished...
Ban Air!?
As mayor, did Palin order several books banned from the town library and fire the librarian when she refused?
No. No books were ever banned. And the titles that Palin is said to have wanted tossed included several that at the time hadn't even been published yet, according to FactCheck.org.
But she fired the town librarian twice.
Librarian Mary Ellen Emmons, told the Anchorage Daily News that Palin asked her three separate times about the possibility of removing books from the shelves. Each time, Emmons said she wouldn't.
At a local council meeting, Palin explained that her questions on banning had to do with "understanding and following administration agendas," according to the Anchorage paper.
But Palin did end up firing Emmons. The first time, she rehired her, as well as several other department heads that she also let go. Palin called it a loyalty test since the employees had been there under the previous mayor.
The second time, Palin rehired Emmons only after the town got upset, according to several newspaper accounts and FactCheck.org.
In December 1996, Emmons told her hometown newspaper, the Frontiersman, that Palin three times asked her -- starting before she was sworn in -- about possibly removing objectionable books from the library if the need arose.
Emmons told the Frontiersman she flatly refused to consider any kind of censorship. Emmons, now Mary Ellen Baker, is on vacation from her current job in Fairbanks and did not return e-mail or telephone messages left for her Wednesday.
Library Director Mary Ellen Emmons last week said Palin broached the subject with her on two occasions in October - once Palin was elected mayor Oct. 1 but before she took office on Oct. 14, and again in more detail on Monday, Oct. 28. Besides heading the Wasilla City Library, Emmons is also president of the Alaska Library Association. *snip* But on Monday, Oct. 28, Emmons said Palin asked her outright if she could live with censorship of library books. This was during a weak when Palin was requesting resignations from all� the city's department heads as a way of expressing loyalty.
No, Mary Ellen the librarian said a lot... back then.
(If she denies it now, I wonder who got to her... )
Last edited by KidLazy; 09-13-2008 at 12:06 AM..
Reason: links
Regarding Palin's abortive attempt to enforce censorship on the public library, contrary to the McCain campaign's protestations, the timing of the affair was grossly suspicious:
Ross emphasized an angle I previously hadn't heard much about. Palin was elected mayor thanks in large part to the strong backing of her church, the Wasilla Assembly of God, which, right around the time Palin took office, "began to focus on certain books available in local stores and in the town library, including one called 'Go Ask Alice,' and another one written by a local pastor, Howard Bess, called 'Pastor, I am Gay.'"
Palin became mayor, her church was interested in censorship, and soon after, Palin asked a "rhetorical" question about how books might be excluded from the public library. When the librarian resisted, she was, at least initially, fired.
Regarding Palin's abortive attempt to enforce censorship on the public library, contrary to the McCain campaign's protestations, the timing of the affair was grossly suspicious:
It would appear to me that most of you have simply decided she's guilty. So much for "beyond a reasonable doubt". Bottom line, no books were banned, and the whole firing thing could have been for any number of reasons and was perfectly within Palin's right.
To be honest, I'd be more likely to vote for her if she fired people like the librarian and Chief of Police (or whatever his State title is, not worth looking up). Just like the president usually "fires" the heads of most government agencies when elected, lower-level politicians do so, too. New leader, new agenda, new direction, so get the "conservatives" within the system out to allow for the new leader's plan to be properly supported and executed.
As for the "truth" about the other topics swirling around her, depending on what source you read, you'll get all sorts of half-truths. Yes, some agencies focus on the fact that she requested and received earmarks...but others point out she has also cut back and resisted some. Yes, she initially supported the "Bridge to Nowhere", while others show she killed it, and initially explained she was supporting a raod/connection of some sort, not the epic project it became.
As for the Iraq issue...I'm as confused after reading the article as I was before. Let's look at some of the quotes from the article linked above:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Globe
Her visit to Iraq itself was during a short stop at Khabari Alawazem Crossing on the second day of her two-day trip to the region.
But she did not venture into Iraq, Osborn said. "You have to have permission to go into a lot of areas, and [the crossing] is where her permissions were," he said.
Palin did not stay the night in Iraq, and spent the rest of the second day at Camp Virginia and Ali Al Salem Air Base, Osborn said.
Maybe if journalists weren't such partisan hacks, they could do some clear, straight reporting on this kind of thing instead of muddying the waters on something that should be perfectly clear. How can she have a visit to Iraq if she wasn't in Iraq? Why would you say she didn't spend the night in Iraq if she was never there in the first place?
If her campaign released that she had visited Iraq, specifically, and she had only been in Kuwait, I'd view it as a minor issue. It would matter a lot more if she said it on national television, which the article seems to indicate didn't happen, but I think what most people really care about was whether or not she came over to the theater of operations, and they won't quibble too much over the details like this. If she pulls a Hillary/Biden and talks about dodging sniper fire or crash landings, that might warrant a bit more attention, or if claimed to visit troops in Afghanistan while in Kuwait. Heck, as far as the article is concerned, she may very well have been in Iraq briefly, walking across the checkpoint or something...it's tough to tell. Just like most of the other reports on her "hypocrisy ".
It would appear to me that most of you have simply decided she's guilty. So much for "beyond a reasonable doubt".
Why on earth would you apply a "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard to a politician's actions in deciding on whether to vote for her or him?
Quote:
Bottom line, no books were banned, and the whole firing thing could have been for any number of reasons and was perfectly within Palin's right.
Could have been--but sure doesn't seem that way.
Quote:
To be honest, I'd be more likely to vote for her if she fired people like the librarian and Chief of Police (or whatever his State title is, not worth looking up). Just like the president usually "fires" the heads of most government agencies when elected, lower-level politicians do so, too. New leader, new agenda, new direction, so get the "conservatives" within the system out to allow for the new leader's plan to be properly supported and executed.
The problem I have with this theory is (1) I don't think a librarian's position is a political one; and (2) the police head (Public Safety Commissioner) was not a holdover from the last administration--he was appointed by Palin. AFTER the investigation and discipline against Wooten.
In addition--much of the problem wasn't the firing per se--had she come out and said--"Yes I demanded Wooten be fired--as someone who personally knows him, I knew he shouldn't be a trooper and as Governor I insisted on his firing" (and something similar for the Librarian), I'd have more respect for her. She didn't do that.
He was one of her oldest and most loyal friends but when Palin abruptly sacked Bitney in July last year, she somehow failed to tell him. The first he learnt of it was when his state-issued mobile phone stopped working as he was driving to his office. He used another phone to check in and discovered that his name had been removed from the state employee directory.
His offence, according to senior Republican sources in Anchorage, was to fall foul of Palin’s 43-year-old husband, Todd. It was an early sign that the self-styled “first dude” of Alaskan politics was playing an unexpectedly prominent role in his wife’s administration.
Bitney now works for another senior Alaskan Republican and would not comment on Palin last week. However, his former colleagues believe he incurred Todd’s wrath because he became romantically involved with the ex-wife of one of the “first dude’s” friends.
WASILLA, Alaska -- Sarah Palin and John Bitney go way back. They were in the same junior-high band class. Mr. Bitney was a key aide in Gov. Palin's 2006 gubernatorial campaign. When she took office, she gave Mr. Bitney a job as her legislative director, and a few months later stood beside him at a news conference and praised his work.
Seven weeks later she fired Mr. Bitney for what her spokeswoman now describes as "poor job performance."
In a nutshell: Mr. Bitney divorced his wife and began dating one of her friends, who was divorcing. I can see this as justifiable grounds for firing but I cannot see calling it poor job performance.
Yes, the list of banned books is simply that: a list of banned books that is normally circulated for banned books week. Some i/d/i/o/t/ person who should have known better apparently decided to add a list for reasons unknown.
"Mayor Palin gave us some terrible moments and some rather gut-wrenching moments, particularly when Mary Ellen said she was going to have to leave," said Cathy Petrie, who managed the children's collection at the time.
Emmons, a former Alaska Library Association president who now goes by Mary Ellen Baker, did not return calls seeking comment.
To quote further from that article:
The Rev. Howard Bess, a liberal Christian preacher in the nearby town of Palmer, said the church Palin and her family attended until 2002, the Wasilla Assembly of God, was pushing to remove his book from local bookstores.
Emmons told him that year that several copies of "Pastor I Am Gay" had disappeared from the library shelves, Bess said.
"Sarah brought pressure on the library about things she didn't like," Bess said. "To believe that my book was not targeted in this is a joke."
ROSS: Around the time Palin became mayor, [Palin's] church and other conservative Christians began to focus on certain books available in local stores and in the town library, including one called "Go Ask Alice," and another one written by a local pastor, Howard Bess, called "Pastor, I am Gay."
"A few weeks after the council meeting, the mayor fired the librarian, although she was reinstated after a community uproar," Ross reported. "The Wasilla librarian, Mary Ellen Edmonds, left two years later, and according to friends, because it was just too hard working for Sarah Palin."
And for another perspective on what Alaskans think of Palin:
This has more information about Troopergate than I've read elsewhere. I note that Gov. Palin is requesting $88,000 to release the e-mails requested and is citing executive privilege in denying the union's request.
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