08-26-2008, 10:36 PM
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#1 | | Just Joined
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2
| Montano robbed?
Hey, can someone explain why Montano didn't receive a point when Pina went off the end of the strip at the beginning of their bout? At the very least he should have received a yellow card, which is what I think Montano was referring to when he was holding up 2 fingers and telling the director that he should get a point after Pina's first official yellow card. That director seemed a little unfocused, no?
*Edit: I just watched the bout tonight online, hence the huge delay from the time of the actual bout. | 
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08-28-2008, 08:04 AM
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#2 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Angel, London
Posts: 2,488
| Montano asked for the video replay which ruled Pina did not entirely leave the piste with both feet, so he doesn't gain a point. Looking at the replay the decision suggests that Pina's toes that were in the air were still within the boundaries of the piste.
I'm confused to the yellow card comment though? You never recieve a yellow card for leaving the piste during fencing (unless you are deliberately avoiding a touch etc).
So no, he wasn't 'robbed'. | |
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08-28-2008, 11:23 AM
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#3 | | Just Joined
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2
| I just watched that bout, and I'm pretty sure that Pina left the strip with both feet. At first one foot was off and the other was in the air (which directors had been calling "off the strip" in other bouts throughout the day), but then he slid backwards and both of his feet were planted off the strip. | |
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08-28-2008, 12:29 PM
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#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 253
| Quote:
Originally Posted by AyeTheresTheRub  I just watched that bout, and I'm pretty sure that Pina left the strip with both feet. At first one foot was off and the other was in the air (which directors had been calling "off the strip" in other bouts throughout the day), but then he slid backwards and both of his feet were planted off the strip. | I couldn't tell you what they'd been calling "throughout the day" but if the what the video showed has been accurately described, the call was correct. Your front foot doesn't have to be literally touching the strip for you to still be "on the strip," it just has to not have completely passed a vertical plane rising from the end line. | |
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08-29-2008, 08:34 PM
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#5 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,538
| I am more concerned about the lack of penalties for Pina (a) bell-guarding Montano in the face, knocking him on his tuchus, and (b) throwing a shoulder into him in passing in another phrase later on.
I wonder whether these were all purely accidental...or if someone just noticed that they could get away with things.
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08-30-2008, 01:29 AM
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#6 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 4,878
| I've noticed from the Italian feed from Athens (and I assume it holds true for Beijing) that there are 2 kinds of touches in this bout (pardon my poor transcription)-
bella stocatta por l'italiano
OR
stocatta injustimente por la franchese | |
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08-30-2008, 01:36 AM
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#7 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: May 2000 Location: The valley of the -hot- sun, NorCal
Posts: 3,184
| Well of course he got robbed. I mean what happened to all the rings he used to wear?
And didn't he used to date an italian model or something? I guess 4 years does that to you.
__________________ - Epee is the Louis Vuitton bag of fencing: only the best can get it, and the rest of the masses must content themselves with cheap knockoffs (sabre, foil)
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08-30-2008, 01:28 PM
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#8 | | Yes We Did
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 2,165
| Quote:
Originally Posted by AyeTheresTheRub I just watched that bout, and I'm pretty sure that Pina left the strip with both feet. | No he was not. Quote: |
At first one foot was off and the other was in the air (which directors had been calling "off the strip" in other bouts throughout the day), but then he slid backwards and both of his feet were planted off the strip.
| No they were not.
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10-09-2008, 11:55 AM
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#9 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007 Location: Spain
Posts: 150
| Montano wasn´t robbed...Pina doesn´t have any "friends" in high places or fame like Montano to help him out...I was surprised Pina beat Montano though... | |
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10-09-2008, 06:01 PM
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#10 | | Fence As Much As Possible
Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Alleyways
Posts: 200
| I LOL'ed when Montano ran into Pina's fist.
That was beautiful.
And no, Montano was not robbed. He just got defeated. 
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10-10-2008, 05:12 PM
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#11 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,538
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlos37 Montano wasn´t robbed...Pina doesn´t have any "friends" in high places or fame like Montano to help him out...I was surprised Pina beat Montano though... | Just a few choice dirty tricks? That's much better, I suppose.
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10-21-2008, 11:59 AM
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#12 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007 Location: Spain
Posts: 150
| say them out | |
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10-21-2008, 01:23 PM
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#13 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Philly
Posts: 693
| Just watched the bout on Youtube
#1 - The toe... Very close. From the camera angle, it could have gone either way. I guess Montano asked for a video review, but no closeup is shown. From the angle that we do see, a call either way could have been justified.
#2 - The Bell punch... Seemed intentional to me, especially from the second replay.
#3 - The shoulder... Did not see a shoulder thrown.
#4 - The 'second' yellow... I only saw one yellow card given to Pina, which means that Montano was mistaken when he claimed it was the second. | |
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10-21-2008, 07:23 PM
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#14 | | Fence As Much As Possible
Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Alleyways
Posts: 200
| For anyone that didn't see the match we're discussing or wish to watch again, you can watch the entirety by clicking the link below.
The match begins around 2:35:00 http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/pla...elcode=sportfe
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10-23-2008, 11:36 AM
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#15 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Maryland
Posts: 220
| Quote:
Originally Posted by AyeTheresTheRub I just watched that bout, and I'm pretty sure that Pina left the strip with both feet. At first one foot was off and the other was in the air (which directors had been calling "off the strip" in other bouts throughout the day), but then he slid backwards and both of his feet were planted off the strip. | It sure looks like two feet off the end to me.
(Actually, he slid back another inch or two after this shot. I grabbed this one too early)
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Last edited by griffindm; 10-23-2008 at 12:04 PM.
Reason: correction
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10-23-2008, 03:15 PM
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#16 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Posts: 8,951
| Quote:
Originally Posted by griffindm It sure looks like two feet off the end to me.
(Actually, he slid back another inch or two after this shot. I grabbed this one too early) | Can you grab a later one?
The angle is clearly sub-optimal, but I'd probably say that he's still just barely breaking the plane and not completely out of the volume of space over the strip.
-B
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10-23-2008, 03:39 PM
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#17 | | Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 10,177
| I'd agree. Also an excellent opportunity to apply that "neither off the back nor side" nonsense we had this season. | 
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10-24-2008, 02:42 PM
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#18 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Maryland
Posts: 220
| Quote:
Originally Posted by oiuyt Can you grab a later one?
The angle is clearly sub-optimal, but I'd probably say that he's still just barely breaking the plane and not completely out of the volume of space over the strip.
-B | Come on Brad. You can't say that as a fencer, if you did that you would not expect to be called off the strip.
Dave G.
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10-24-2008, 02:52 PM
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#19 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Maryland
Posts: 220
| Actually, I just tried to capture the shot a little later, but it is sub-second different from the one above, and really doesn't change the angle or postion of the foot that much. I noticed the additional movement only after restarting the video after the first capture.
The action is at 2:36:18 - 2:36.22 in the video. Here is my second snapshot
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Last edited by griffindm; 10-24-2008 at 02:57 PM.
Reason: Added New Photo
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10-24-2008, 05:29 PM
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#20 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Posts: 8,951
| For both pictures I'm convinced that he's still on the strip.
Look at the blue strip between his heel and the endline. It's thin. With the angle of his foot his toe pretty much has to be still on the "correct" side of the plane at the end of the strip.
These are great pictures, but they DON'T show Pina off the end.
-B
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