Men's Team Epee

[telkanuru]

FRA-ITA final 45-39.

[misha]

40-39 for Poland after 8

[telkanuru]

Looks like Poland vs. France for the gold. Hell of a 45th touch for Poland.

[fencerX]

After the touch is awarded to Poland, big Wang falls limp on the floor.

[UlrikeDG]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

Looks like Poland vs. France for the gold. Hell of a 45th touch for Poland.

I'm still not sure what happened. Wang ran over the Polish fencer (not even going to attempt typing his name), and then he sat on the floor "injured"? I saw Wang refused to shake hands at the end.

[Grasshopper]

I guess the crowd didn't pump Wang up enough.

[sionnach]

Tagliariol falls with one minute to go in bout 8/9 of the bronze medal match necessitating a substitution.

It's obviously a genuine injury for Matteo, the last thing you want when you've just established an eleven point lead with one minute to go in the penultimate bout is to let your hard working teammate on for a medal So so unfortunate.... just like Nisima in athens.

(nice one matteo)

[DJ Apostrophe]

And now the French are being Italian...

-w

[Craig]

Looks like Jerome Jeannet is doing the same. Gotta say, if it was planned, it was done with style.

Well, he's back up. But the 4th is getting ready.

[Tomas N]

Dominant performance by the French. They looked faster, stronger, longer, and more focused than the Poles.

[Siobh]

The Olympic sub rule is a joke.

French TV commentators (including Philippe Boisse) are disgusted: "It's a lamentable rule. A team is four, not three... a team is four, not three."

No smiles from the French team at all.

Jean-Michel Lucenay is extremely upset. He's in tears speaking to the French journalist.

[Craig]

That was really classy by Zawrotniak. He could have gone for a couple of touches on Jerome Jeannet when Jeannet got back on strip w/the hurt hand, but he decided to just keep distance.

The crowd appreciated the show of sportsmanship.

If the bout had been within 5 points, I don't think that would have happened.

[Craig]

I wonder why they let Matteo get by with getting a sub but not Jerome? Did he need to tear his ACL or something?

[Siobh]

Medal ceremony now.

The French team don't look like they just won the Olympic gold. It's sad.

Lucenay in the stands being comforted by Stéphane Riboud.

The French are the only team with just three on the podium.

The commentators are sick about it. Lucenay was there all through the qualification - he is a part of this team.

They say he wasn't subbed on because the doctor wouldn't authorise it. They are not happy with the doctor...

"He can't even get on the podium for a simple photograph with his teammates," says one of the commentators. Some official is preventing him from making his way there. French staff are pretty much telling the official to f*ck off (more politely, I'm sure). Lucenay gets to the podium for a photo.

The entire team looks devastated.

Why is this rule in force??

Edit: Was it the doctor's ethics that prevented him from authorising the substitution? I mean, surely he realised what was going on... but every other team did it...

And another edit to say: I'm not in any way saying that Jeannet was faking it (it could have been the day's only genuine injury). But that's one of the problems with the rule. The doctor thought he was faking it.

[fencerbill]

As I was lectured by other posters, many of them my friends from here in Massachusetts, there are special rules on substitution for fencing in the Beijing Olympics.

Go to the FIE website, www.fie.ch. There is an announcement on these special rules.

The replacement has to be authorized by the competition doctor, not the tame doctor of the country wishing to make the substitution.

[DJ Apostrophe]

Originally Posted by fencerbill

As I was lectured by other posters, many of them my friends from here in Massachusetts, there are special rules on substitution for fencing in the Beijing Olympics.

Go to the FIE website, www.fie.ch. There is an announcement on these special rules.

The replacement has to be authorized by the competition doctor, not the tame doctor of the country wishing to make the substitution.

The complaint from the above posters is that it was allowed for the other teams but not the French.

And I agree, it's a bad rule, unfortunate would be the best word I could use, actually.

I understand where the IOC is coming from... they don't want to extend us (Fencing) any more athlete spots, if they allow four on a team, that's an additional 32-36 athletes (depending on host country qualification) that have to be housed in the olympic village, fed, etc.

The rule as it stands now is a compromise. I imagine it went something like this: Fencing said 'we have four per team', the IOC said 'you can have three per team.' Fencing said, "Well, what if someone gets hurt, what will we do then? Surely it wouldn't be right to cast a team aside if one person got hurt?" IOC says, "OK, you can have one person to replace an injured athlete, but they aren't an Olympian unless they fence, and if they do, they take the person's spot that they subbed in for."

I don't know if other sports have annoyances like this, but I would expect they do.

-w

[Craig]

Matteo takes a dive, is "hurt" asks to be replaced.

Jeannet hurts his hand. (It was actually bleeding according to some right there), but the docs just saw what Matteo did. "So sorry, you must keep fencing"

Ughh

The French coach is really pissed about it. Gotta get the actual quote written up.

Craig

[fencerbill]

I believe that taking away the option of substituting from the team and requiring the official doctor to determine the necessity is new for Beijing. In Athens, the alternate for ME, Jan Viviani, was subbed in during the placement (non-medal) rounds. The MF sub, Greg Chang, and the MS sub, Tim Morehouse, were not subbed in, the US losing both bronze medal matches.

The requirement that the fencer substituted for to leave the Olympic Village was in place at Athens.

They changed the rule for this Olympics, probably to save the expense of changing the sheets.

[Craig]

Press conference highlights:

Jerome Jeannet: "It is a day of satisfaction, but we know deep inside that Jean-Michel Lucenay (who wasn't awarded a medal) is an Olympic champion."

Jean-Michel Lucenay: "It is not right, this rule about the medals. We trained together, we worked together, we qualified together. I know we can't really do anything about it because it's the rules, but it's still hard to accept."

Stephane Riboud (Coach): "The actual rule which leads to the awarding of the medals is awful and unfair. There should be some recognition for all four participants. It's hard for him to have worked some four years and not be recognized."

Compare to Italy:

Tagliariol: "I'm happy (about) what happened. Because of my injury, Stefano (Carozzo) was able to enter the match and win a medal."

"It's not fair that an athlete (reserve) who trains like the others can only win a medal if an injury happens (and they substitute someone.)"

[fencerbill]

The OOC could award the medal without allowing the reserve into the village. If the OOC balks at the cost, I am sure the country would reimburse them.

sarcastic smilies added.