The Definitive Screaming-As-Good-For-TV Thread

[Falchion]

Dear, dear Peter,
After all your F.net experience, you must know better than to lecture us Americans on the proper way to trash-talk
If we did not invent it, then we certainly perfected it. And if we did not invent it, we sure don't care who did.
No, the proper way to trash talk is to make boasts, preferably ones that enrage your opponent, and that would embarass any sentient being, and then back up the boast with action (the boasted result).
In this way you can humiliate you adversary, guarantee his undying enmity, and be sure that future adversaries will regard you with dread.
Or something like that.
In my opinion, the French did it right. I respect them. They raised the ego stakes of that race until everyone competed with everything they had. It made for great theater.
Best regards,

Bill

What he said.

[gatsby]

Hi!




If the French did it that way -

Then they were doing it wrong.

The correct way to thrash-talk is to be silent before the event, then win it, and then - but only then - thrash-talk your opponents to their face. If the French team would have done that after winning, then there would not have been any answer for the USA team in that event.

Anyway, I was not aware of anything like that when I looked at the race. In the Swedish TV coverage, the commentators were only speaking about strictly race-relevant stuff (previous PB by those swimmers, injuries or lack thereof, which teams tend to have good/bad relay timings, etc.) - quite little personal stuff of the swimmers. That is the way I like it.


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

Ok, you got me on the lack of capitalization. I'm just too lazy to hit the shift key, but I'll do it this time just for you.

But anyway, I hope you don't trash talk this way. I think this "method" is just cowardice. If you really wanna make them feel bad, you gotta talk first and then back it up, like other people have said. Saving the talk for afterwards only shows that you were scared and are a complete a-hole.

Not condoning trash talking of any kind of course =]

[epeemike81]

Dear, dear Peter,
After all your F.net experience, you must know better than to lecture us Americans on the proper way to trash-talk
If we did not invent it, then we certainly perfected it. And if we did not invent it, we sure don't care who did.
No, the proper way to trash talk is to make boasts, preferably ones that enrage your opponent, and that would embarass any sentient being, and then back up the boast with action (the boasted result).
In this way you can humiliate you adversary, guarantee his undying enmity, and be sure that future adversaries will regard you with dread.
Or something like that.
In my opinion, the French did it right. I respect them. They raised the ego stakes of that race until everyone competed with everything they had. It made for great theater.
Best regards,

Bill

Yep, the French did it right. At least until the moment when.... THEY LOST!!!!

-m

[ysbadadden]

Hasn't anyone noticed that the effect of the "8 greatest fencing reactions" (detached from the actions and the context) was to depict fencers as a bunch of idiots screaming over nothing, to mock and trivialize the sport?

It's one thing to celebrate a team victory with your teammates. It's another to scream after every touch. And notice that in the videos, both fencers are generally screaming. At least one of them is making a fool of himself.

[mrbiggs]

Hasn't anyone noticed that the effect of the "8 greatest fencing reactions" (detached from the actions and the context) was to depict fencers as a bunch of idiots screaming over nothing, to mock and trivialize the sport?

Perhaps the live online coverage was also done to marginalize the sport? As if to say "look how stupid this sport is! I can't believe people actually watch this!" And the coverage of the women's sabre sweep was certainly done with a sarcastic tinge; the message I got from their videos was "look at these idiots who think it's good to have won three medals!" NBC has really gone out of their way to marginalize our sport by televising and otherwise spreading it through a variety of media.

[Jaden]

Hi everyone, first post here.
Just thought I'd give my first impressions since I'm a first time viewer of your sport. If I mess up or get a fact here or there wrong please forgive me since I've only viewed your sport this week.

I like to thank NBC for streaming video otherwise I would have never been able to see a fencing event live. I wouldn't have known it is a very cool sport to watch.

For me, Fencing events are very entertaining to watch.
My first impressions was WOW, these competitors sure do get into scoring a point! At first it was what the hell? It's just a friggin' point, not the gold medal match point.
It seemed very odd like there is unnecessary an acting going on. A second goes by, the female competitor takes off her mask and screams! I felt that it was odd looking.
Taking the mask off and pumping the fist is ok, but the shrieks need to go.
I first thought Fencing maybe a European sport and drama maybe the key to the sport. I first felt it's on the boarder of poor sportsmanship but the celebration "scream" on every point was being done by both competitors so my curiosity made me look at the rules, I saw that a point can be awarded from a judges interpretation if both score simultaneously? I realized this maybe where the drama comes to play?
I then accepted the drama from the competitors as a hype tactic.
For the men it seemed more natural to be animated than the women. If the celebration is a delayed reaction scream it looks very odd.

What would I like to see in the future,
Since I've only viewed Fencing on the internet stream, I like to hear good professional commentating on the sport and match.
Give a history of the competitors, Rivalries, Rankings ect.
Keep the fist pumping,
Get rid of the unnatural screams unless it's the victory point.

The sport is very fast, it's hard to see a point scored. This is where the drama from the competitor comes in and helps the viewer. I like the scoring lights on the mask
I don't know if there is a way to digitally enhance the tip of the sword, like fox did with the hockey puck or if this would this hinder viewing? Who knows.

I also like to see a best of 3, It seems these matches are so close that it could go either way. A best of 3 would give a better winner in my opinion.
Is this done in other tournaments?

Over all I like viewing Fencing, so much I even came here to find out more about the sport

I am now looking forward to watching more.

[Guymelef]

Here's a case of screaming going to far and another chance to bash the Frenchy-French:

French coach excluded from fencing field of play


www.chinaview.cn 2008-08-13 18:07:32
BEIJING, Aug. 13 (Xinhua) -- French epee coach Jean Francois Di Martino was given a black card by the Federation of International Fencing (FIE) and excluded from the fencing field of play for the remainder of the competition at the Beijing Olympics here on Wednesday.

The ruling was announced after the round of 16 bout between Laura Flessel Colovic from France, and China's Zhong Weiping.

The two sides tied the score at 10-10 in the bout time. In the overtime, Laura led the race by one point, and took it as the symbol of her victory.

However, FIE said in a statement that when both fencers made clear their unwillingness to fight during the overtime, the referee will proceed to the a last minute of fencing. The decision infuriated the French coach.

It was the first black card given by FIE at the Beijing Olympics. FIE said the French referee received a yellow card in the round of 32 for the same offence.

Source: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...nt_9263769.htm

[fencerbill]

FIE said the French referee received a yellow card in the round of 32 for the same offence.

Source: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...nt_9263769.htm

Who gives cards to the referee? I thought they were spanked in private.

Or did you mean the French coach?

My inference is that it was the same coach, although that wasn't clear. First offense - yellow, second - black. I would think that the FIE would go to great lengths to avoid giving out a black card, specially to a French coach. Once they gave the yellow, they would really have to give the black.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

I first thought Fencing maybe a European sport and drama maybe the key to the sport. I first felt it's on the boarder of poor sportsmanship but the celebration "scream" on every point was being done by both competitors so my curiosity made me look at the rules, I saw that a point can be awarded from a judges interpretation if both score simultaneously? I realized this maybe where the drama comes to play?
I then accepted the drama from the competitors as a hype tactic.
For the men it seemed more natural to be animated than the women. If the celebration is a delayed reaction scream it looks very odd.

In epee, if a light goes on, that person usually gets a point-- unless they went off the strip or things like that.

In sabre and foil, there's more judgement involved--- both people advance, starting attacks at the same time, near the end of the blades hit at basically the same place at basically the same time, then they hit each other at basically the same time----- That's not really enough information to decide who gets a point, there's also "who controlled the blade action" which is somewhat a showmanship issue. Body language during the touch is important. Body language after the touch is important for really bad refs. Really good refs (the Olympic refs, for example) aren't as obviously affected, but if you think that there's some small small way they're affected.... you might try to get it.

Delay often comes because the fencer knows the ref may have seen it one of two ways, and they are waiting for who gets the point. "is it me? is it me? is it me? YES IT'S ME!". You toss a basketball at the hoop--- many players can tell it'll get there when the ball leaves their hands, but you don't celebrate until it's through the net. On the Olympics, they're minimizing the appearance of the ref, so the pauses are often difficult to decipher.

Sometimes the screaming crosses the line. Fencers can be penalized for it. Different refs have differing ideas of what's sportsmanlike. Some of it has to do with their cultural background, or personality.

What would I like to see in the future,
Since I've only viewed Fencing on the internet stream, I like to hear good professional commentating on the sport and match.
Give a history of the competitors, Rivalries, Rankings ect.
Keep the fist pumping,
Get rid of the unnatural screams unless it's the victory point.

I would love to see Daria with a mic rather than just a text window. The biggest problem is that there are so few events that are put on TV that we don't really know who to give the mic to-- Daria's doing a great job, and it's easier to listen to things than be looking two places at once.

I don't know if there is a way to digitally enhance the tip of the sword, like fox did with the hockey puck or if this would this hinder viewing? Who knows.

I think this has been tried, and I think it just ends up looking ugly and busy, and doesn't really help seeing it.

I also like to see a best of 3, It seems these matches are so close that it could go either way. A best of 3 would give a better winner in my opinion.
Is this done in other tournaments?

Youth tournaments. There are two types of usual bouts--- to 5, and to 15. So this is already kind of like a best of three. The tactical thinking is slightly different between the two, but best of three takes a bit more time (due to the breaks), and is slightly more confusing (which bout are we on?, etc). The difference between best of three bouts to 5, and best of one bout to 15 is not that meaningful in terms of who would win.

Over all I like viewing Fencing, so much I even came here to find out more about the sport

I am now looking forward to watching more.

We're so glad! Welcome!

[peet]

Here's a case of screaming going to far and another chance to bash the Frenchy-French:

French coach excluded from fencing field of play


www.chinaview.cn 2008-08-13 18:07:32
BEIJING, Aug. 13 (Xinhua) -- French epee coach Jean Francois Di Martino was given a black card by the Federation of International Fencing (FIE) and excluded from the fencing field of play for the remainder of the competition at the Beijing Olympics here on Wednesday.

The ruling was announced after the round of 16 bout between Laura Flessel Colovic from France, and China's Zhong Weiping.

The two sides tied the score at 10-10 in the bout time. In the overtime, Laura led the race by one point, and took it as the symbol of her victory.

However, FIE said in a statement that when both fencers made clear their unwillingness to fight during the overtime, the referee will proceed to the a last minute of fencing. The decision infuriated the French coach.

It was the first black card given by FIE at the Beijing Olympics. FIE said the French referee received a yellow card in the round of 32 for the same offence.

Source: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...nt_9263769.htm

I don't see where fencers screaming has anything to do with that story. The coach argued with the ref, and got ejected. It says nothing about him even raising his voice, and besides, he's not the fencer, which is the focus of this thread.

AIUI, He got confused, thought they were in sudden-death overtime instead of non-combativity (full minute) overtime, and argued about it. Ooops!

-p

[Guymelef]

Peet, I admit it was tangential. But he who is without thread-drift...

[peet]

Peet, I admit it was tangential. But he who is without thread-drift...

Fair enough...

[ysbadadden]

Perhaps the live online coverage was also done to marginalize the sport? As if to say "look how stupid this sport is! I can't believe people actually watch this!" And the coverage of the women's sabre sweep was certainly done with a sarcastic tinge; the message I got from their videos was "look at these idiots who think it's good to have won three medals!" NBC has really gone out of their way to marginalize our sport by televising and otherwise spreading it through a variety of media.

It's like in skiing: the shots of the great downhill racers are thrilling; the montages of novices sprawling all over the bunny slope are comic.

Likewise, the coverage of the actual women's sabre matches was thrilling; the montage of screaming fencers ...

[mrbiggs]

It's like in skiing: the shots of the great downhill racers are thrilling; the montages of novices sprawling all over the bunny slope are comic.

Likewise, the coverage of the actual women's sabre matches was thrilling; the montage of screaming fencers ...

But these aren't novices...

I really think that your argument here is absurd.

[Inquartata]

Sometimes the screaming crosses the line. Fencers can be penalized for it.

When?

The "Top Reactions" video for epee showed one guy bellowing right at his opponent. Staring straight at him, walking toward him, bellowing. Three times. The last from about two feet away.

If that's tolerated, what won't be?

Yeah, I know: Doing it to Rene Roch.

Different refs have differing ideas of what's sportsmanlike. Some of it has to do with their cultural background, or personality.

Or whether they are me.

I would love to see Daria with a mic rather than just a text window. The biggest problem is that there are so few events that are put on TV that we don't really know who to give the mic to-- Daria's doing a great job, and it's easier to listen to things than be looking two places at once.

She is. Although there were a few gaffes. Like "attack is short, repost". And worst of all, saying that screaming is done to influence the referee. We may all know it, we may all realize it's tolerated nevertheless, but why put something that's a clear violation of the rules out there in public when we're trying to put our best foot forward?

I was unable to get onto the forums the day after she mentioned f.net. I kept getting that "The server is too busy" message. I wondered if maybe so many people heeded her that they swamped the site.

Then I remembered that, no, this is America. No one pays that much attention...