It is my belief, that of all pieces of fencing equipment, the mask is perhaps the most important.
In searching through the past year's threads regarding fencing masks, I find that the conversation typically goes this way:
"Which is better? Mask 'A' or Mask 'B' To which we get replies such as, "I own Mask 'A' and I love it, or simply a non substantiated comment in which the poster explains why Mask 'B' is better.
Periodically, you may get a better post in which someone indicates that Mask 'A' fits better for those that have rounder heads, whereas Mask 'B' is for more oval-shaped heads.
What I would like to do is perhaps compile these ideas into a single thread in order to help people bring all these thoughts together. Perhaps if my OP is good enough, the moderators would grace me by making this a sticky.
Background Information:
Why does this matter to me? As a fencer in a rural area, fencing-wise at least, I have few opportunities to sample different masks. Although we can see plenty of variety at Houston tournaments, I rarely attend them and usually my mind is more occupied in competition than searching for the best gear.
For this reason, fencers such as myself must go on sparse vendor descriptions, photographs, and chance encounters with other fencers who already own said mask. Without going into detail, I have found that different masks fit my head differently. It is, therefore, something of a guessing game to find the right mask.
The Criteria
Now let us, as best as possible, establish some scientific criteria by which we can judge the merits of each mask. We shall start by examining the easiest or least essential criteria and then move on to the criteria which is harder to establish scientifically, or is at least more important.
Strength/Durability
This will be the easiest form of criteria to reach a concensus. In years of being on this forum, it appears to be a universally agreed point that, unless you seriously don't have the money, one should always purchase an FIE model. The FIE has established its criteria for strength, so we can easily adopt their standard.
We will, therefore, set our criteria as being an FIE rating. Preferably, we would want to consider European masks only; I guess we just ruled out Uhlmann/Allstar.
Appearance
Although no one wants to look horrid, I think this should be a minor issue. This would include the external appearance of the mesh and the color/design of the interior. There are certainly masks that look better than others, but this should not a determinate factor, although my shallow system of mask picking has caused me to purchase masks exclusively upon appearance. The result has been the use of a mask for 3+ years that has not fit my head correctly.
Comfort
Comfort is important, but I am going to argue that fit is the most important. I believe it is in comfort where we get the most subjective. I wish to establish some criteria by which to judge things. Let us consider the anology of movie directing:
I took a course on American Cinema in college. It was my professor's opinion that a good director, in general circumstances, was one who practiced his art in such a way that the average viewer did not notice the directing. In the same way, a good mask's interior should at least be comfortable enough that it is not noticed. That is, the material should not be so hard or coarse that it consciously irritates or preoccupies the mind of the fencer.
We could explore this analagy by stating that the truly great movies, ones that rise above the mediocre, are ones in which the directing is noticed, but it is noticed in a way that brings out the skill of the director and is aesthetically pleasing. We should, therefore, note that some masks not only meet the initial criteria, but exceed it by being noticeably more comfortable than other masks. This is perhaps a more dangerous point to explore as we each have different tasks. Some prefer silk while others prefer cotton. We cannot, therefore, place too much emphasis upon this point.
Fit
It is my humble thesis that the fit of the mask is the most important and most complex criteria in each fencer selecting the right mask. In my experience, I have observed that a mask that is ill fitting for the fencer will cause more problems than I think many may notice. My three years out of fencing has allowed me to re-evaluate my fencing experience and become more aware of things that I did not notice before. As an example, I have discovered that I am constantly readjusting how my current mask sits on my head. In fact, I could say that I do this not only between points, but even during a point. I would argue that this is not a good thing for a fencer's mind to be just as occupied with a mask sitting correctly on the head than what the opponent is doing.
The Challenge
Take these criteria points, or modify them as you please, and describe the masks which you have used. I will now, in the second post, rate my current mask.
Last edited by D'Artagnan1673; 08-08-2008 at 06:12 PM.
... without remorse for the past, confident in the present, and full of hope for the future, [d'artagnan] went to bed and slept the sleep of the brave.
- The Three Musketeers
Maker: Uhlmann
Classication: Foil/Epee FIE, non-removable interior
Year: 2002
Size: Medium
Price: I believe I bought it on sale from the Fencing Post at $130.00
Strength/Durability
This is a pre-outsourced Uhlmann mask. It has survived three years of being used at a club lacking air-conditioning in the humid Gulf Coast area. My sweeat ruins cheap synthetic and all leather gloves, but the Uhlmann's interior remains unaffected and the mesh has not rusted. That may, however, have something to do with my fettish for mask painting. For the past three years, she's been stored in a climate controlled room and appears no worse for this. She still appears strong and sturdy, although there is a single dent in the lower right section of the mask.
Appearance
Like most FIE masks, I find that the cut of the mesh is more attractive in the non-FIE version, but the thicker padding and the stregnth-related upgrades are enough to offset this cosmetic detail. The 2002 model was made with the dark blue interior and does not have 'Uhlmann' written all over it.
Comfort
In my opinion, the Uhlmann complies with the first standard of criteria in that it is not noticeably uncomfortable. In term's of the fabric's texture and feel, it does a good job of remaining neutral enough to be acceptable to most fencers, although I would doubt anyone could claim this to be the most comfortable mask in the world. It should be noted that a frequent wash in woolite helps keep the material softer.
** Edit ** Nolano made a good point which I overlooked when writing my review. We should also discuss how well the mask cushions the effect of shots to the head.
In the case of this Uhlmann model, the padding is thick enough to absorb even strong blows. I have never felt jarred or had my ears ring from a blow to the mask.
Fit
My head dimensions are 22 inches across the forehead and 24 inches around the face. I am not aware if that is terribly oval-shaped, but I believe this is one reason why the Uhlmann sits poorly on my head. I have observed at least two problems with regard to how this mask sits:
1. Even with extensive squeezing, the sides do not sit firmly upon the sides of my head. This means that sudden movements shift the position of the mask.
2. The bib is stiff enough that if I lower my head, the bib makes contact with my chest and raises the mask to where my head is no longer firmly seated in the chin and forehead restraints. These bear in mind that my now stretched strap on the back of the mask may be part of why the mask moves n that way.
Solution: I have found that wearing a hat backwards underneath the mask helps to keep it in place, but that adds several problems of its own. It is harder to take off the mask between points to breath or reflect (something that should actually please directors), and it adds an additional layer of cloth which air must circulate through.
Final Thoughts
It's been a good mask, but a flawed one. I have realized that I have been unconsciouly adjusting the mask between and during points. A good mask should be one that isn't even noticed by the wearer. The pre-outsource Uhlmann may be an excellent pick, but not for one with my head dimensions.
Last edited by D'Artagnan1673; 08-08-2008 at 03:02 PM.
... without remorse for the past, confident in the present, and full of hope for the future, [d'artagnan] went to bed and slept the sleep of the brave.
- The Three Musketeers
... without remorse for the past, confident in the present, and full of hope for the future, [d'artagnan] went to bed and slept the sleep of the brave.
- The Three Musketeers
Maker: Leon Paul
Classication: Foil/Epee FIE X-Change mask
Year: 2008
Size: Large
Price: 205~
Strength/Durability
Everyone I've talked to with an FIE LP mask has commented on how the mesh is virtually indestructible. it seems to me that this design gives you the ability to replace the part that is more likely to wear out, while leaving you the mesh.
Taking this into account, this is probably the longest lasting mask you could buy.
Appearance
It's kinda weird looking. Not a big deal to me, I don't have to look at me.
Comfort
It took a few minutes to get used to, but this is by far the most comfortable mask I've ever worn. The minimal padding ensures the most airflow, while not detracting from cushioning hard blows. In fact, due to the way the bib is attached, neck shots and mask shots in general aren't nearly as jarring as they normally are.
Fit
With a bit of fine tweaking, it's a wonderful fit. The bib design also hugs my chest, helping keep shots from going under the bib.
Final Thoughts
Despite the high price, I would be very reluctant to use anything else, and when this one dies, I'll probably buy another.
"When Fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag and bearing a cross."
Why? My Blue Gauntlet FIE mask has worked fine for me for years.
Review it if you like. I know nothing of the BF masks, so my opinion of them is just that, my opinion.
... without remorse for the past, confident in the present, and full of hope for the future, [d'artagnan] went to bed and slept the sleep of the brave.
- The Three Musketeers
Perhaps it would help to describe not only the masks and its size, but also the shape of your head (not just circumference around your head and face, but also width and height), how well this mask fits the shape of your head, and how much "adjustment" was required to achieve a satisfactory fit.
Otherwise I'm afraid that most of what I'm seeing here tells little more than what is already in various equipment reviews.
Perhaps it would help to describe not only the masks and its size, but also the shape of your head (not just circumference around your head and face, but also width and height), how well this mask fits the shape of your head, and how much "adjustment" was required to achieve a satisfactory fit.
Otherwise I'm afraid that most of what I'm seeing here tells little more than what is already in various equipment reviews.
Suggestions are more than welcome. We may arrive at no greater detail than other threads, but at least we can consolidate as much information into a single thread. This should at least assure that people don't have to search as long.
I'll work on that a little later today. What I'll do is not only measure my height and width, but also the height and width of the inside of the inside of the mask.
... without remorse for the past, confident in the present, and full of hope for the future, [d'artagnan] went to bed and slept the sleep of the brave.
- The Three Musketeers
My Uhlmann is now wall decor at my office, so I haven't been able to provide some more in-depth research as to why the mask doesn't fit.
I hope this bump will encourage others to review their stuff. My replacement mask (Prieur FIE) will arive via UPS on Wednesday. I will probably fence in it several times before releasing a full review.
As for my new saber kit, I am going to pick between the TCA Gajardoni FIE, LP Contour Fit FIE (non X-Change), and the Negrini FIE. In other words, I'll have another review in a few weeks.
... without remorse for the past, confident in the present, and full of hope for the future, [d'artagnan] went to bed and slept the sleep of the brave.
- The Three Musketeers
If it's a saber mask, I seriously, seriously recommend the xchange mask.. I know it's spendy, but the lame material on the bib is always the first thing to go, and, it's replaceable.
"When Fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag and bearing a cross."
If it's a saber mask, I seriously, seriously recommend the xchange mask.. I know it's spendy, but the lame material on the bib is always the first thing to go, and, it's replaceable.
I know, but LP doesn't give you the option to purchase their starter kit w/ the X-Change. I really can't afford to pay full price for all LP stuff. I could mix and match the gear, but it would still be more expensive than a starter kit.
... without remorse for the past, confident in the present, and full of hope for the future, [d'artagnan] went to bed and slept the sleep of the brave.
- The Three Musketeers
Ah... Before deciding, you might give them a call or an email and see if they'll let you substitute just that one item.
A possibility I had already considered. However, here's another thought:
The Gajardoni *looks* super nice. If it turns out, however, to not be as nice, then I'll listen to the rest of the voices on Fencing.net, and I'll replace her in 1-2 years with an X-Change and never turn back. If, however, I fall in love with the Gajardoni, Ill be happy to pay the $160 every 2-3 years when the bib fails.
In other words, I pretty much need to buy this mask just to satisfy my own curiosity. Otherwise, I'll always wonder... oh if only I could turn my mind off.
... without remorse for the past, confident in the present, and full of hope for the future, [d'artagnan] went to bed and slept the sleep of the brave.
- The Three Musketeers
Hello. I'm not sure if I'm a bit late, as I didn't check when your post was (poster above me), but I as well am facing a problem similar to yours. I am currently devoted to fixing it, and started a post on that, so if there's a breakthrough I'll be sure to let you know.
One piece of advice is that if you choose to purchase the things individually, the breaches might be an area to save money in. I'm not a big Saber person, but since the legs aren't a valid target, then perhaps non-FIE will do.
Hello. I'm not sure if I'm a bit late, as I didn't check when your post was (poster above me), but I as well am facing a problem similar to yours. I am currently devoted to fixing it, and started a post on that, so if there's a breakthrough I'll be sure to let you know.
One piece of advice is that if you choose to purchase the things individually, the breaches might be an area to save money in. I'm not a big Saber person, but since the legs aren't a valid target, then perhaps non-FIE will do.
The level at which you have been fencing greatly determines what gear you need. If you're buying FIE Saber gear, the extra cost of FIE/non-FIE knickers is almost negligable. The extra cost of buying each item seperately, rather than in a set, is not however.
Here's my preliminary review of my new Foil/Epee Mask:
Maker: Prieur FIE
Size: Medium
Classification: Foil/Epee
Year: 2006
Price: I bought it used off a private invidual.
Strength:
Well, it's a Prieur, and we've all heard Prieur is the strongest mask in the world. Its been only lightly used and there are no dents in the mesh. The bib is strong. More importantly, however, it hugs the throat so that it still protects even if you raise your head in the lunge.
Style:
Just my opinion, but Prieur looks great. It looks more like what I would think of as a traditional/classical mask. The bright red interior definately gets your attention.
Comfort:
The padding is thick and covers the whole head. It's not the softest stuff in the world, but its not bad either. I don't know how the material will react to sweat until I fence a few times.
Fit:
Fit is a tricky one here. I used the adjustable forehead restraint to acquire an excellent fit when wearing the mask. The problem is, however, it's almost impossible to take off without using both hands. My wife and I have looked it over, and she thinks she can solve the problem by sewing the chin padding through the bottom of the mesh to where it rests on the frame of the mask. I, however, think it has to do with the fact that the padding in front of the chin rest cannot touch the mesh; there is too much tension. Once you get past that point, the force of your head pulls the chin padding down, and the fit is excellent.
Final Thoughts: I think I'll be very happy with the mask considering the price. I don't think it is even possible for this mask to fly off your head, no matter what you tried to do.
... without remorse for the past, confident in the present, and full of hope for the future, [d'artagnan] went to bed and slept the sleep of the brave.
- The Three Musketeers
I'll be sure to send you plenty of reps for that helpful post. I am trying to establish scientific criteria by which to rate a mask, not find out who likes what.
... without remorse for the past, confident in the present, and full of hope for the future, [d'artagnan] went to bed and slept the sleep of the brave.
- The Three Musketeers
Originally Posted by KD5MDK 
