Just started fencing, now I have heel pain...

[dtcaslick]

As the heading notes, I just recently started fencing (in April) and I've started experiencing heel pain in my lead foot. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to do? I've tried the Dr. Scholl's sport gel insoles with no success. I'm thinking I need to get a good fencing shoe like the Nike Ballestra, but I don't want to fork out that much money. Any suggestions?


Todd

[noodle]

the obvious one: stop landing so hard on your heels. you do not *have* to smash your heel into the ground when you lunge. practice lighter, more controlled, shorter lunges until your heel gets better.

it also depends on what type of heel pain. is it in the back or near the middle of the foot? it could be plantar fasciitis instead of simple tissue damage.

[needle]

What noodle said. Pay attention to how you lunge - your leading foot should not be lifting very high, just high enough not to catch on the floor. Think of it as sliding at very small elevation above the floor rather than lifting up and slamming down. Don't try to make very long lunges until you've got the technique right with regular ones.
And instead of gel insoles, get gel heel protectors.

[Fencergrl]

After following the advice, and the pain continues... see your doctor. Better yet a sports doctor who can advise you on rehab. This will not fix itself if the recommendations don't work.

[noodle]

After following the advice, and the pain continues... see your doctor. Better yet a sports doctor who can advise you on rehab. This will not fix itself if the recommendations don't work.

yeah, this is also important.

i'm not a doctor, nor can someone properly diagnose you over the internet.

if the pain worsens or persists, see a doctor

[needle]

And another thing - look at the surface you fence on. If you're doing footwork on concrete, stop it. If the place you train at has nothing but a thin layer of cushioning material laid directly on concrete floors, do both your heels and knees a huge favor, and find a different place.

[thekoby]

it also depends on what type of heel pain. is it in the back or near the middle of the foot? it could be plantar fasciitis instead of simple tissue damage.

I had this problem during my second year fencing because I was landing too hard on my lunges (like everybody else here is suggesting). I went to the doctor and found that I had the symptoms noodle posted (and a resulting heal spur). I had to stop fencing for almost a month while it healed.

To just reiterate what everybody else has said, be lighter on your feet, use your knees to absorb some* of the impact while doing footwork, and don't lift your front foot so high.

* - Bending the knees while doing footwork will automatically do this. DO NOT use your knees to absorb the impact of a lunge - what needle said, practice short, soft lunges first before attempting deep, long lunges.

[remistress]

Listen to what everyone else has said here. Another thing to keep an eye out for is the fact that most begginners when first starting out tend to have an arched trajectory in their lunge (up and out). If you notice you get shin splints on that front leg along with your heel hurting, it's likely this is the case. Try and focus on pushing yourself forward (not up!) and try to almost skim the ground with your front foot. Good luck and happy fencing!

[needle]

Try and focus on pushing yourself forward (not up!) and try to almost skim the ground with your front foot.

Good way to check whether you're doing it right is to find a spot on the wall, and watch how it moves relative to your eye level, as you lunge. You should see that spot move up continuously. If it "drops down" no matter how little, then goes up, you're lifting up too much.

[NGV]

What noodle said. Pay attention to how you lunge - your leading foot should not be lifting very high, just high enough not to catch on the floor.

That may be true in theory, but in practice I think that fencers (including very high level ones) frequently lift their leading foot much higher than that. Images like this (link) seem pretty common.

As for the heel problem - I had that issue when I first started fencing regularly. A heel cup and taking it easier for a little while eventually did the job for me.

[NGV]

Oh - and in my case, I think the early heel pain was more caused by generally clunky footwork and landing hard on my front heel in advances, not a result of lunges specifically.

[Pescados666]

That may be true in theory, but in practice I think that fencers (including very high level ones) frequently lift their leading foot much higher than that. Images like this (link) seem pretty common.

As for the heel problem - I had that issue when I first started fencing regularly. A heel cup and taking it easier for a little while eventually did the job for me.

Notice how he's also the one getting hit

[needle]

That may be true in theory, but in practice I think that fencers (including very high level ones) frequently lift their leading foot much higher than that. Images like this (link) seem pretty common.

In actual competition bouts at any level, there's plenty of bad footwork, bad bladework, and generally bad form. And that's fine.
But it doesn't mean that those fencers do practice drills that way. At lower levels it usually means that they don't practice enough, and at high levels - that they know how to adjust what they do to what this particular touch requires ... and sometimes also that they don't practice enough

"I've seen this one bout where a high level fencer did <insert real ugly incorrect action>, so I now proclaim that it's ok to practice it that way" is a terrible argument that doesn't hold any water.

Do footwork the way that will help you minimize injuries in practice, and maybe it will also help you avoid injuries in competition.

[dtcaslick]

Thanks to everyone for the input. I'm planning to get new shoes soon and see how that goes and then I will head over to the podiatrist. I'll get the orthotics if the new shoes don't help. I'm thinking heel inserts may help but I might just wait and get orthotics, since my insurance covers them. I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being plantar faciitis. I had x-rays done about a month ago and the doc said it wasn't bone spurs. She advised I go to a podiatrist if it didn't improve.

As for my technique...yeah, my footwork probably is quite sloppy, but the pain will start after just a few minutes of forward and back footwork, even without lunges. My coach says I need to watch my posture. He says I tend to put too much weight on my forward leg.

I guess I should have said so, but I was looking for advice about shoes and possibly inserts. If anyone has opinions about specific shoes or heel inserts, I'd appreciate the info. Now that the price of the Nike Ballestras seems to have come down, I might try and pick up a pair. Unfortunately, I'm in Canada and it looks like we can't order them here yet. But I'm going to NYC at the end of the month...maybe a store in Manhattan will have them in stock by then.

[TBean]

There are a million threads on shoes. While the Ballestra looks promising as a fencing shoe, it might not be what you need just yet or ever. If you are already experiencing pain in your feet a fencing shoe might never give your foot enough support or padding. Also, anything with "fencing" attached to it costs 3x as much.

I would recommend trying a good court shoe - tennis, badminton or possibly an indoor soccer shoe. People have liked the Adidas Feathers (an elite junior at my club loves these and says they wear well) or the Adidas Beijing Lightster (badminton). I am currently breaking in the Lightster and like it a great deal. There is nice padding in the heel and it is comfortable on the foot. At $80.00 it is a reasonable alternative to the $120.00 D'Art or $200+ Ballestra or other Adidas shoe.

Also, for the record, I have successfully fenced in tennis shoes, running shoes, indoor soccer shoes, and fencing shoes. The shoes do not make your footwork or fencing any better, they just make your feet comfortable. Find a shoe that is comfortable on your foot and helps to reduces your pain.

[Qbranch]

Now that the price of the Nike Ballestras seems to have come down, I might try and pick up a pair. Unfortunately, I'm in Canada and it looks like we can't order them here yet. But I'm going to NYC at the end of the month...maybe a store in Manhattan will have them in stock by then.

You might want to contact Vlad at Fleche Fencing (Toronto) about this. The website does not always feature the full range of products in stock so a phone call or email would certainly be worth your while. If you're going to NYC you'll be limited to Blade. I've had relative success with this vendor but customer service can be inconsistent.

Before you hand over your cash you might want to look into some court shoes as an alternative. For less less than $100 CAN you could pick up a decent pair of shoes with good, comfortable supports that will likely satisfy your needs. When I was in the same situation as yourself I found that the premium fencing shoes were not the best choice. For me it was a bit like buying a Bentley to go grocery shopping!

Note: Shoes are an obsession for some. Hit the f.net search function and step back from your screen!

[Qbranch]

Ohhhh... TBean beat me to it!

[Lady Quindecim]

I am trying _really_ hard not to bring age into it. I am not _trying_ to say that old and decrepit people are going to feel the aches and pains from the curse time has bestowed upon them more than young, sprightly fencers. As soon as I do, I will be reminded (again) that if we do not take proper care of ourselves while we are young that it will be even worse. And that will be followed by sentiments from persons eager for me to understand their perspective first hand.
So I am NOT bringing age into it and all you old people can rest at ease.

But, if you do not mind me asking... weight? Could this be a factor? A heavier person, executing the exact same manoeuvre is going to feel it differently in the proverbial morning.

All of the same good advice above applies, but from a "what should I be expecting as 'normal'?" perspective, it could make form and footwear even more important.
=^_^=

[dtcaslick]

I am trying _really_ hard not to bring age into it. I am not _trying_ to say that old and decrepit people are going to feel the aches and pains from the curse time has bestowed upon them more than young, sprightly fencers. As soon as I do, I will be reminded (again) that if we do not take proper care of ourselves while we are young that it will be even worse. And that will be followed by sentiments from persons eager for me to understand their perspective first hand.
So I am NOT bringing age into it and all you old people can rest at ease.

But, if you do not mind me asking... weight? Could this be a factor? A heavier person, executing the exact same manoeuvre is going to feel it differently in the proverbial morning.

All of the same good advice above applies, but from a "what should I be expecting as 'normal'?" perspective, it could make form and footwear even more important.
=^_^=

Does it say anywhere how old I am? It asked me about this when I registered, but I don't see it displayed anywhere...? Well, I am a 36 year-old male, about 6'2" (6'3"-6'4" in shoes) and I weigh around 200 lbs.

[dtcaslick]

As for footwear, I'm thinking that a shoe made for a sport requiring strong shock absorbtion -- be it for fencing or some other sport -- is what I should get. The shoes I am using now, the Nike Free, have a very flexible sole...maybe too flexible.

I've never had heel problems before and I have played indoor lacrosse, hockey, long distance/cross country running, cycling, etc. I'm thinking it is probably a combination of shoe choice and the mechanics of the way I fence.