Stripped inside hex

[HDG]

One of the kids in my club asked me to take a look at his foil: the grip keeps loosening.

It seems the tang is a little long and he had to keep tightening the pommel (inside hex), but couldn't get it to tighten down far enough. Simple enough problem, but the inside is completely rounded. I can't get anything to grab to get it out and replace it.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

[GypsyScot]

Put it in a vice, then take a nice wide screwdriver and hammer that mother in there until you can turn the screwdriver to remove the pommel, I do it three times a week.

[SJCFU#2]

A few thoughts (not necessarily good ones):

If the pommel is loose then maybe you can try putting a bit of adhesive on the end of a rod then pushing the "sticky" end of the rod onto the end of the pommel. You might be able to get enough grip to allow you to back the pommel off a few turns, after which you can probably fit your hex Allen wrench in there.

If you can reach the top of the pommel with a Dremel cutting wheel then maybe cut a slot into it for a screwdriver, then work it out (at this point it might help to have a screwdriver with a notch cut in the blade to fit over the tang).

If the pommel is too deep for a cutting wheel then maybe you could try hitting it with a cold chisel. Depending on how brittle the material is that should either create enough of a slot to allow your screwdriver to get some bite or it will crack the pommel in two (hopefully it won't be too hard to get the pieces out).

As a last resort you might consider trying a bolt extractor, but only as a last resort since I suspect that once you got the pommel off you would have to clean up the end of the tang before it could be used again (hopefully it would still be long enough to use once you are finished).

[dcmdale]

I would be inclined to try a screw/bolt extractor of the appropriate size. They cost about $5 individually. Many are long and tapered, but I would want a blunt nosed one.

Basically, the idea of a screw extractor is a more elegant version of GypsyScot's. The extractor has a left hand thread that is intended to bite into what's left of the hole such that the harder you turn, the more it bites.

This assumes that there is *something* above the tang to bite into.

[Pescados666]

How much room do you have left on the outside of the nut in the grip? If it's enough for pliars, use them. Otherwise, I'd say go with Gypsyscot's suggestion. Basicly the same method with a stripped grub screw, just on a larger scale and you don't have to do it all the way across. It doesn't have to be that deep, just enough to make friction to turn the nut when you apply pressure.

[HDG]

Very snug b/w the nut and the inside of the grip
The end of the tang is almost flush with the nut

[thekoby]

You may need to get a tap and die kit and rethread both the inside hex nut and the tang. You can pick up a cheap one from a local hardware store for a few bucks, but Sears.com has a nice Craftsman one for around $80.

[fencerbill]

Really extreme measures. Take a hack saw and cut down into the grip until you turn the inside hex pommel into a screwdriver pommel. You can fill the grip back to its original shape later with paste epoxy. Then you can back it out with a screwdriver. If the tang completely fills the pommel you may have to modify a screwdriver by grinding back the center of the screwdriver. I posted a picture of mine a couple of months ago.

I wasn't sure if you couldn't tighten the grip because the inside hex is rounded or whether the threads on the tang are messed up. One advantage of 6 mm thread tangs is that they can be cut down to 12x24 SAE thread. You do have to buy a 12x24 pistol pommel but American Fencers, for one, should have them. I may still have one or two myself.

[fencerbill]

You may need to get a tap and die kit and rethread both the inside hex nut and the tang. You can pick up a cheap one from a local hardware store for a few bucks, but Sears.com has a nice Craftsman one for around $80.

You really don't have to buy a complete set. Our local hardware store has single taps and dies for less than $10 each. You may need a die holder.

[DHCJr]

I don't think the bolt/screw extractor would work. They are designed to drill into the center of the bolt/screw and then back them out.

There is no center.

I like SJCFU#2 idea, "If the pommel is loose then maybe you can try putting a bit of adhesive on the end of a rod then pushing the "sticky" end of the rod onto the end of the pommel. You might be able to get enough grip to allow you to back the pommel off a few turns, after which you can probably fit your hex Allen wrench in there"

or Bills idea of cutting a groove and using a modified screwdriver or even a needle-nose pliers.

[Mergs]

I don't think the bolt/screw extractor would work. They are designed to drill into the center of the bolt/screw and then back them out.

There is no center.

If you use a large enough extractor, you can use the inside diameter of the nut to catch the extractor threads on. No need to drill.

[thekoby]

I don't think the bolt/screw extractor would work. They are designed to drill into the center of the bolt/screw and then back them out.

A taps and dies are different than a bolt/screw extractor. They are used to rethread items that have been stripped from over tightenting or just wear and tear. I grew up on a farm so used taps and dies quite often on repairing broken farm equipment. I've also used bolt extractors to removed the stripped bolts. Two different tools.

I was suggesting what he might have to do afterwards in order to not have to replace the weapon....its possible the threads on the tang have been messed up too.

[dcmdale]

I don't think the bolt/screw extractor would work. They are designed to drill into the center of the bolt/screw and then back them out.

If you use a large enough extractor, you can use the inside diameter of the nut to catch the extractor threads on. No need to drill.

Yes, Mergs captures what I was thinking. There are two basic designs for extractors: one design anticipates a fairly deep hole drilled in the center of the bolt/screw which obviously wouldn't work for this application; the other requires just enough play to get a bite on.

What I am not sure about is whether any of the commercially available sizes of the blunt variety actually would properly fit.

[damianip]

I'd see if there's a Torx bit that could fit snugly and grab enough metal to extract it.

A screw extractor might work, but I suspect clearing the ID of the grip might be an issue.

What's the blade worth? Cut it off and start again. If the blade is worth more than the grip, chop the grip so you can get a Vise-Grip on the hex and remove it.

This is why I favor outside hex nuts.

Paolo

[HDG]

This is why I favor outside hex nuts.

The plan was to replace it with one…

[DHCJr]

A taps and dies are different than a bolt/screw extractor. They are used to rethread items that have been stripped from over tightenting or just wear and tear. I grew up on a farm so used taps and dies quite often on repairing broken farm equipment. I've also used bolt extractors to removed the stripped bolts. Two different tools.

I was suggesting what he might have to do afterwards in order to not have to replace the weapon....its possible the threads on the tang have been messed up too.

Yes, I know that. What made you think I was thinking tap and dies?

Even with a blunt extractor would it work? The tang is all the way to the top.

I still think the idea of Bill's (modified screwdriver), or the tape or needlenose would work better.

Yes a bolt extractor would work with a bolt because it is one piece. Here you have to grab hold of the pommel without grabbing hold of the tang.

Believe me, I know the difference between an extractor and tap & dies.

Do you understand the difference between a pommel & tang and a screw/bolt?