The Good Life - SNs 2008

[Craig]

Originally Posted by fencerbill

Relative to the discussion about strips. Can someone tell me what the USFA expended on strips and over how many years the investment was made, since we moved on from the copper mesh? I believe the last NAC I worked was 2003 when it was all copper mesh.

There were request for bids sent out by the USFA for vendors to bid on supplying all of the strips and scoring equipment in exchange for marketing considerations.

Craig

[fencerbill]

I am by no means witch hunting to find culprits to blame for the cash flow shortfall.

I take your comment to mean that the switch to metal strips from copper mesh did not involve a necessity for the USFA to make a one-time (or over a relatively short time) capital investment that would have made the cash flow crunch even worse.

We didn't have any choice but to go to different strips.

If the national office and the organization were able to do that without a big capital investment, they should get recognition and credit for it. God knows they are getting enough blame for other problems.

[brtech]

I believe, but do not know for sure, that the strips we currently have are purchased. I do not know what the cost was.

The reels, floor cords, machines, weights, shims and some other stuff is leased, on a 4 year lease matching the quad. A new lease is being negotiated now.
The new lease includes some additional strips. Lease terms are quite attractive.

Remembering that I don't know what we paid, the kind of average over the years, rough discount I expect, stir in some SWAG, and I'd say, we have purchased 50 strips over 6 years at average of less than $2K/strip. It might be a lot less.

The sectional aluminum strips hold up better than copper. They weigh more, and take more "cubes", so our shipping cost for them is larger on a per strip basis.

I don't know what the percentage of NAC costs are for equipment and shipping, but I'd bet it was less than 15%. One small figure I knew; the original quote for the decorator for SN this year was $100K. That was unacceptable, and we paid a whole lot less, but I'm just saying....

[KD5MDK]

NAC shipping expenses are around $10,000/tournament I think. It of course depends on how many strips are needed, where the tournament is located, etc.

[hello?]

Originally Posted by epeemike81

1,247.

-m

Mean.

[KD5MDK]

Do you know of what we speak?

[bob46]

Originally Posted by peet

Aw, shoot! I didn't notice that screaming at the fencer counted for that square. That most certainly happened plenty. I only had them yell at me in english. Sure, often broken & heavily accented english, but english nonetheless.

-p

And honestly, I didn't get that much grief from coaches this time around. Either I'm getting better, or they're getting mellower. Perhaps both, but I'd like to think at least the former!

You didn't see random coach #1; speaks english well, argues with the ref, is a recently appointed USA coach for the Mens Foil Olympics, trained the US Individual Men's foil Olympian, and does this every big tournament. Guess who?

[KD5MDK]

He's still calming down, as far as I've seen. Also, you don't get the square if it's in English anyway.

[notalent]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

He's still calming down, as far as I've seen. Also, you don't get the square if it's in English anyway.

Sometimes he yells instructions in French so that would count. Like peet I didnt realize that it could be at the fencers, so I never crossed out the square. I only had one sabre coach yell about a call in the 6 days I reffed, Im going to assume that I did a better job than in Portland. I did have George come up and ask if I imidiatly red carded a fencer for covering, I showed him the score sheet that showed the card for use of the non weapon arm. He smiled and went back to the complaining coach and parent and reexplained the rule to them.

[peet]

Originally Posted by bob46

You didn't see random coach #1; speaks english well, argues with the ref, is a recently appointed USA coach for the Mens Foil Olympics, trained the US Individual Men's foil Olympian, and does this every big tournament. Guess who?

I honestly can't remember if I ref'ed any of his kids in SJ.

Side judged, yes. Ref'ed, I'm not sure.

-P

[oso97]

Originally Posted by notalent

Sometimes he yells instructions in French so that would count. Like peet I didnt realize that it could be at the fencers, so I never crossed out the square. I only had one sabre coach yell about a call in the 6 days I reffed, Im going to assume that I did a better job than in Portland.

Yes, he's definitely calmed down. I was assigned to referee a bracket of DivII WF for some unknown reason, and somewhere around the 32 or the 16 (kinda hard to remember when there are three refs for a quadrant and the bouts just keep on coming) and, in retrospect, I was obviously making my calls using sabre tempo (which is only to be expected, as I'd been training in sabre and I get to referee decent foil matches about, oh, 5 times a year or so). And he noticed, and gave his fencer information to adapt to the extremely tight time I was calling - instead of biting my head off.

*Grin* Yea, I know, I need to work on my foil time. But, hey, it was >consistent.<

[Meteoric Iron]

Just waking up a week later, the proverb from Japanese game strategy:

"After 10 blows you notice the fist, after 20, you learn to block it." Next year, next year...

[Timacheff]

Originally Posted by tbryan

The one downside that I can see is for fencing photography. From some angles, the solid, dark color provides a much nicer background. Now, more photos will show fencing action, but the background will be cluttered with chairs and gear and people. And since most of the people are fencers in their whites, the fencers on strip could end up blending into the background.

That might be fine for candid shots and such, but I would imagine that you want drapes or a raised strip or something for the final if not the top 8.

What did Serge Timacheff think of this change?

Other than the Grand Prix in Las Vegas, we definitely need to improve what we're doing for a bona fide finals strip, complete with a full backdrop that is both wide- and high-enough, as well as some additional lighting. For example, one of our photographers caught a really cool photo of a fencer jumping in the air on the finals strip after winning a touch, but it was completely overwhelmed by background clutter -- essentially rendering it useless. Optimally, it should be in a room all of its own if there's going to be supplemental lighting (for example, we could have done this in Miami, and we could have done it in the big warmup room in San Jose).

The main issue is cost ... an elevated strip, a correctly built backdrop, and additional lighting all equate to $$$. Is the image of fencing worth spending the money? I tend to think it would be well-spent.

[tchwojko]

Originally Posted by Timacheff

The main issue is cost ... an elevated strip, a correctly built backdrop, and additional lighting all equate to $$$. Is the image of fencing worth spending the money? I tend to think it would be well-spent.

I haven't been to many high level events, but the exhibition matches at the Duel in the Desert were fantastic. Large crowd with beverages, announcers, and the black background makes it way easier to watch live, let alone photograph.

And while I'm here, Serge, I'm reading your Canon EOS Digital Photography book that I just found in Borders. I'm learning quite a bit, and I'd recommend it to anyone. Thanks, and I look forward to seeing your photos from Beijing.

[piste off]

Originally Posted by Timacheff

Other than the Grand Prix in Las Vegas, we definitely need to improve what we're doing for a bona fide finals strip, complete with a full backdrop that is both wide- and high-enough, as well as some additional lighting. For example, one of our photographers caught a really cool photo of a fencer jumping in the air on the finals strip after winning a touch, but it was completely overwhelmed by background clutter -- essentially rendering it useless. Optimally, it should be in a room all of its own if there's going to be supplemental lighting (for example, we could have done this in Miami, and we could have done it in the big warmup room in San Jose).

The main issue is cost ... an elevated strip, a correctly built backdrop, and additional lighting all equate to $$$. Is the image of fencing worth spending the money? I tend to think it would be well-spent.

The only negative thing that I can say about the San Jose event was the lack of a dedicated and preferably raised, final strip.

Miami was a much better example of what is ideal. One final strip, with one event final occurring at the time. That is a much more professional way to go than just “jeez, let’s have it on strip #47.”

There was one time in SJ where I had two friends fencing at the same time in two final bouts. I know a lot of other people would have liked to see both bouts and had to choose. That, and the fact that there was nothing else to differentiate that they were fencing for the national title was unfortunate. They deserve better.

Of course it is a matter of money. But getting a sponsorship to help with the bill would be easy (Tissot does that for the Worlds).

R-

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by Timacheff

The main issue is cost ... an elevated strip, a correctly built backdrop, and additional lighting all equate to $$$. Is the image of fencing worth spending the money? I tend to think it would be well-spent.

Worth the money???

ABSOLUTELY.

Presentation effects Perception.

This should be a major priority.

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by piste off

That, and the fact that there was nothing else to differentiate that they were fencing for the national title was unfortunate.

They deserve better.

R-

100% correct.

This is exactly the sort of thing that drives me crazy.

There is something seriously seriously wrong with an organization that isn't smart enough to celebrate its champions. This is just another example of bizarre priorities within the fencing community.

Like it or not, pageantry provides context.

[KD5MDK]

I remember a fair amount of griping in Miami about having to wait for the finals strip to come available when several events ended around the same time.

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

I remember a fair amount of griping in Miami about having to wait for the finals strip to come available when several events ended around the same time.

FIE events seem to go well with their scheduled finals.

The circus we call SN with about a 100 events over about 10 days? Maybe several finals strips.

I have had 2 experieces with raised finals strips. VWC in Tampa in 2002 was fine all around lighting. (They spent hours taking all of the glass pendants from the chandeliers.) VWC in Limoges in 2003 was extremely difficult with only one strip of theatrical track lighting on one side. You have to balance the preferences of the athletes and the photographers.