Need Help Please

[thekoby]

I wasn't entirely sure where to put this thread, so if it is in the wrong place, forgive me.

I am a 7-year member, going into my 8th, of the Ball State University Fencing Club. For the past three years I have been the sole teacher of the beginner foil class (with slight aide from my coach on helping me learn how to teach large groups), and for the past two years have been teaching the beginner epee and sabre classes as well as the advanced foil and epee classes. When we held club elections at the end of the semester to elect our officers for the upcoming school year the newly elected club president made the announcment that he would be taking over as the new beginner foil instructor and that I was to become the assistant to his new assistant instructor (who was also going to replace me as the epee instructor). Normally this wouldn't be a problem, but the club president has only been a member of the club for one school year and has only been taking foil lessons for 7 months. I personally think that he is not yet ready to start instructing other new fencers on his own. I was just wanting to get some other people's advice on this situation. How should I approach this problem once the school year starts?

I have already talked to him and expressed my concerns with him having me on the back burner while he leads club practices (even though I have been appointed to take over as club coach since our old coach will be moving out of town). His statement to the club members was that I was unreliable as an instructor. This basically came about during a 2-month period where I lost my job, my car died and I couldn't afford a new one, and my girlfriend left me. I believe I had a few good excuses for not being able to get to every parctice (considering I lived 30 minutes away).

Man, I sound like a whiny little *****, but I believe that everybody needs to know the back story in order to help me with this problem.

[ysbadadden]

We need more background. You have been appointed club coach -- by whom? And what responsibilities does the club coach have -- are they enumerated in some club document? How is being appointed club coach consistent with being "unreliable as an instructor?" Will the time you spend as club coach make you less available to coach the beginners? How often does the beginner class run? When you discussed the situation with him, was it at a club meeting (where he said that you were unreliable as an instructor?) Is the beginner class a paid position?

I'm fishing for more reasons than appear on the surface. I can understand why the pres thinks that you're unreliable -- he's been around for seven months, during two of which you were going through a rough patch. At the same time, it's not a great idea to have a beginner teach the beginner class, and a guy who's been fencing for 7 months is definitely still a beginner. I'd still say you have to find a way to prove to him that you can be counted on, even though you know that you can.

Originally Posted by thekoby

I wasn't entirely sure where to put this thread, so if it is in the wrong place, forgive me.

I am a 7-year member, going into my 8th, of the Ball State University Fencing Club. For the past three years I have been the sole teacher of the beginner foil class (with slight aide from my coach on helping me learn how to teach large groups), and for the past two years have been teaching the beginner epee and sabre classes as well as the advanced foil and epee classes. When we held club elections at the end of the semester to elect our officers for the upcoming school year the newly elected club president made the announcment that he would be taking over as the new beginner foil instructor and that I was to become the assistant to his new assistant instructor (who was also going to replace me as the epee instructor). Normally this wouldn't be a problem, but the club president has only been a member of the club for one school year and has only been taking foil lessons for 7 months. I personally think that he is not yet ready to start instructing other new fencers on his own. I was just wanting to get some other people's advice on this situation. How should I approach this problem once the school year starts?

I have already talked to him and expressed my concerns with him having me on the back burner while he leads club practices (even though I have been appointed to take over as club coach since our old coach will be moving out of town). His statement to the club members was that I was unreliable as an instructor. This basically came about during a 2-month period where I lost my job, my car died and I couldn't afford a new one, and my girlfriend left me. I believe I had a few good excuses for not being able to get to every parctice (considering I lived 30 minutes away).

Man, I sound like a whiny little *****, but I believe that everybody needs to know the back story in order to help me with this problem.

[thekoby]

Originally Posted by ysbadadden

We need more background. You have been appointed club coach -- by whom? And what responsibilities does the club coach have -- are they enumerated in some club document? How is being appointed club coach consistent with being "unreliable as an instructor?" Will the time you spend as club coach make you less available to coach the beginners? How often does the beginner class run? When you discussed the situation with him, was it at a club meeting (where he said that you were unreliable as an instructor?) Is the beginner class a paid position?

The resigning club coach was the one who appointed me in accordiance to the club's constitution (being the highest ranked fencer and/or the most skilled/knowledgeable in fencing and instruction). Basically the responsibilities of the club coach is to lead club practices, conduct advanced private lessons, train and instruct club members. Again, these guideliness are stated in the club's constitution.

As far as taking time to teach the beginner classes, the club has had class instructors in the past who have not been club coach, but they all had been fencing for at least 3 full school years. I wouldn't have a problem with it if he were to be my assistant with the beginner class and observe and learn how to teach a large class.

I discussed it with him outside of club practice. There were no other officers or member present when we had discussed his plans to take over teaching, however the announcement was originally made at a practice that I was unable to attend because I did not have a vehicle at my disposal. However, after the two month period where I was finding a new job and getting the money to afford a new car, I returned to practices, so it was not like I continued not to show despite not having a job and still going through the trials of a breakup.

Only the club coach is a paid position, and it is only paid through private lessons at a rate that the instructor of the lesson sets up in advance with the student depending on the number of lessons and the level of instruction they desire. So, no, the job of teaching a beginner class is not a paid position.

[whiteandbluefencer]

I'm not sure how your college club works, but in mine the president deals with administrative stuff. As president, I'm the liaison between the club and outside groups like the student government, athletic department, and other fencing organizations. I would only run a practice if the captains were absent, and even then our faculty advisor always has a hand in everything that goes on. He's sort of the glue that keeps everything together. It sounds like your club needs to work on defining everyone's position/duties.

I really find your situation interesting, because I am also a president who is new to the sport. I started fencing last fall, and I'm very aware of the fact that I still have a lot to learn. I can relate to your president wanting to change how things work; I myself have proposed a few changes, but I certainly think they are changes which will only improve the day-to-day running of the club. No matter what though, I almost never make a decision without seeking the opinions of the seriously involved club members and our faculty advisor. Everything I do is in the hope that it will make the club better, not for me or my friends, but for fencers I will probably never meet.

Maybe you should talk to your president about how the decision was made and whether he feels that it was in the best interest of the club. Stay calm and try to clearly explain your frustrations. The worst thing a fencing club can experience is negativity... it can shatter everything that's good about fencing.

[thekoby]

My club is the same way. The president basically does all the administrative stuff that deals with compliance to the university and community while the coach/captain is in charge of running practices.

He basically made this decision on his own without talking to the other officers, faculty advisor, and other senior members (people who have been there more than 4 years). He states that it will help the club in the long run at least through next year, but I believe in the short run it's going to be very damaging. We did some demonstrations at the different dorm buildings at the end of the school year and he kept fumbling through them, almost like he was unsure of what to say. I had to stop demoing and explain what was going on. It was frustrating and embarassing to the club, IMHO.

[Catseye]

We run our club the same way now but we didn't last year. The president used to teach beginner classes as the coach has a job, family etc and can't make all of the practices. It didn't work out so well and it wasn't the guy's fault it's just a ton of work and pressure to handle both the duties of organizing the team and also training it. The President starts to suffer as a fencer because they are too busy training the beginners. Now our guy had been fencing for years so it wasn't so detrimental to his fencing but a guy that's been fencing 7 months? Teaching ability aside, he's still got some growing to do himself and doesn't sound like the best candidate for training new fencers. Perhaps someone better sure of the rules of foil and their own fencing ability would be a better choice. On the other hand, this would leave you as the coach to spread your talents and knowledge around the whole team. Being sole teacher to half of the groups isn't fair to the other half.

So I'm going to make some assumptions for the sake of argument and say you go to practice once a week tops, giving the President plenty of reason to think you're unreliable. In such a case, why not compromise? The team does need a backup teacher for when you aren't there or when you need to help out somewhere else. Either suggest another student you and the President agree would be a qualified, reliable teacher or makes sure that the guy is prepared to teach the very basics properly, in a way that will not contradict your coaching.

[headcut]

Originally Posted by thekoby

He basically made this decision on his own without talking to the other officers, faculty advisor, and other senior members (people who have been there more than 4 years). He states that it will help the club in the long run at least through next year, but I believe in the short run it's going to be very damaging. We did some demonstrations at the different dorm buildings at the end of the school year and he kept fumbling through them, almost like he was unsure of what to say. I had to stop demoing and explain what was going on. It was frustrating and embarassing to the club, IMHO.

It sounds like this person has a big ego. I can't imagine anyone who could be ready to teach any fencing lessons after only 7 months of lessons unless of course, this person is quite a gifted fencer. If your club is as structured as it sounds, there should be some rules in place that will allow you to challenge this person and the decision that was made without consulting the other more important members of the club.

Sounds like a very political situation which almost always divides the club. Also, do a reality check on yourself. Are you pissed because your ego has taken a hit? or will this impact the club and it's reputation? You might want to put a finger in the air to see which way the wind is blowing. If there is enough disdain for the recent decisions by other more senior members, you may want to challenge his decisions through proper recourse.

If this president is allowed to do whatever he wants and gets away with it without consulting anyone and without any consequence, your club is in for a rough ride. I would start by telling this person that you are not happy with his decisions made without consulting the rest of the more experienced members and officers. Then assuming he will not back down or change his decision, try to take it through whatever recourse you have through the club's structure. I have seen enough clubs/schools (in martial arts but same situation here) run by people with large egos (they want to be in charge!) to know that the outcome always ends with the students being the losers. Maybe call for a meeting with the most senior and important members in a closed door session with this person to discuss this issue. If enough senior members/officers want this meeting, it would be hard for the president to blow this off.


PS... Photoshop rocks, but if you learn Illustrator well, PS will rock even more!

[thekoby]

Originally Posted by headcut

Sounds like a very political situation which almost always divides the club. Also, do a reality check on yourself. Are you pissed because your ego has taken a hit? or will this impact the club and it's reputation? You might want to put a finger in the air to see which way the wind is blowing. If there is enough disdain for the recent decisions by other more senior members, you may want to challenge his decisions through proper recourse.

I will admit that it was a bit a bruise to my ego as a member of the club to call me unreliable because of a 2-month stint of bad luck and disregarding the rest of the times that I was there despite being sick/tired/out of money or having to commute to practice through bad weather. However, I feel that it will damage the club as a whole more than my ego. I've put a lot of work into helping this club grow over the past three years and I just don't want to see the hard work that was done by, not just myself, but several other members that have come and gone before this guy was voted president fall apart. I fear that he will not be able to adequately teach the class to a caliber that would leave the students with a lasting impression and a desire to continue fencing.

[Mr Epee]

Dare I ask what you've been doing at Ball State for 7-8 years?

[thekoby]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Dare I ask what you've been doing at Ball State for 7-8 years?

basically taking one class a semester when I can afford it (buying a house and two cars within 4 years basically drained my bank account).

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by thekoby

basically taking one class a semester when I can afford it (buying a house and two cars within 4 years basically drained my bank account).

Facinating.

This is pure gold.

Tell Mark he's wearing a women's jacket.

Does anyone get paid for teaching the beginner classes?

[headcut]

Originally Posted by thekoby

I will admit that it was a bit a bruise to my ego as a member of the club to call me unreliable because of a 2-month stint of bad luck and disregarding the rest of the times that I was there despite being sick/tired/out of money or having to commute to practice through bad weather. However, I feel that it will damage the club as a whole more than my ego. I've put a lot of work into helping this club grow over the past three years and I just don't want to see the hard work that was done by, not just myself, but several other members that have come and gone before this guy was voted president fall apart. I fear that he will not be able to adequately teach the class to a caliber that would leave the students with a lasting impression and a desire to continue fencing.

I'm just curious as to how someone with only 7 mos of lessons becomes president? Has he only been in the club for 7 mos? Was he voted in by all members? I can see how he would think that you're not reliable... it's "What have you done for me lately?" so unfortunately you may need to do some reputation rebuilding by being reliable and showing up when you are supposed to and giving top notch lessons. I'm not admonishing you even though it may sound like it.

You could also just let things take its course and step back. If he is a really bad leader or instructor, it will be noticed by everyone. One thing about students/members is that as a group they "know" who really is the better instructor/leader/person. So sometimes it's better to give the guy some rope to hang himself than to come off as what could be construed as whining about the new limited role you have. The fencers in the club will know who is the better instructor, if that is indeed you or someone else.

Have you thought that this could be a blessing in disguise? It'll free you up to give more lessons to more advanced students and improve the overall level of the club faster which I think would be better for the club, however, I am reluctant to think that someone with 7 mos of fencing background is at a level to teach beginning fencing.

[thekoby]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Tell Mark he's wearing a women's jacket.

He actually might be in that picture. I know that he's wearing a club jacket and they are all mixed up. Majority of them are uni-sex, but there might be some specifically made for women or men, I'm not entire sure....we just count them to see how many "good" ones we have at the start of each year.

[whiteandbluefencer]

Originally Posted by thekoby

He actually might be in that picture. I know that he's wearing a club jacket and they are all mixed up. Majority of them are uni-sex, but there might be some specifically made for women or men, I'm not entire sure....we just count them to see how many "good" ones we have at the start of each year.

*Snorts with laughter* That is definitely a woman's jacket... you can tell because of the seams which have been sewn into the front to give the chest of the jacket shape (a woman's shape). I'm also my club's equipment manager, so I know a good bit about jackets. I think your club needs to get a little more organized, in all respects. But maybe being equipment manager first, then taking on the role of president has made me a humble officer. I know what it means to be a "lower" officer. It sounds like you all need to think hard about what is best for the club as a whole... not for this year alone, but for years to come.

[Fencergrl]

Forgive me if I'm insensitive... I just find this whole thing hilarious! I too almost peed myself laughing when Mr. E posted the pic. Jeez... I feel like I'm watching an episode of "The Guild"

So a power-hungry geek in a woman's jacket manages to somehow become president of the fencing club and takes over coaching even though he's been doing it for 7 months.

And you're miffed??? Why not sit back, relax and watch things go wrong? You know it's going to. You've got a picture of him on your website in women's clothing... and a link has been posted in the fencing community.... for anyone else that would be revenge enough.
Just be a gentleman and (as mentioned) use the extra time to help some of the more advanced fencers or on your own fencing. If you are asked to resume teaching the beginners continue to be a gentleman about it.... fer god sakes man... someone's got to wear the pants!

[thekoby]

it seems like everybody is on mutual agreement that I should just sit back, focus on my fencing and the instruction of those who wish to take lessons from me and let the students decide for themselves who should teach them.

I'm also my club's equipment manager, so I know a good bit about jackets. I think your club needs to get a little more organized, in all respects.

This actually doesn't work since we don't have a set armory room on campus. All of our equipment is stored in a shared Rec equipment room that is maintained by Ball State staff. They will go through the equipment over the summer and condense as they see fit, often putting all of our jackets, plastron, and knickers into one bag, forcing us to resort them every year. So we just basically stopped sorting by jacket type to save time.

[KidLazy]

What's your school's plan on hiring a new coach?

As far as I know, Coach runs the classes, President runs the club; the new coach should decide who will be teaching which classes. Until then, old coach's plan should be carried out.

[Fencergrl]

Yeah... lose the investment in the outcome and take advantage of the opportunity he has given you. It will only feel like a "demotion" if you act like it is. If you are supportive and positive about it, you will come out smelling like roses and he's likely to land flat on his face or find out he's bit off more than he can chew.

[thekoby]

Thanks everybody!

I'm glad I joined this place. It's quickly become a good resource of information and helpful hints/tricks on how to become a better fencer, person, and instructor.

[Fencergrl]

PS.... Keep letting your president wear women's* jackets for all pictures and for fencing at tournaments. It'll help keep your spirits up.

*Women's jackets have tailoring for breasts. Notice the front seams on his jacket in the pic and how it looks like he has boobs.... bingo!