06-30-2008, 07:36 PM
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#1 | | Member
Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Galveston, TX
Posts: 92
| Do Points Affect Flick Success?
If so, which points are the best? German? LP? Screwless? | 
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06-30-2008, 07:53 PM
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#2 | | Madness?
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,916
| Yes, they do, but not that much.
I've heard good things about the FWF next gen, but I haven't tried them myself. I've had some success with a budget knockoff of the Schermasport screwless.
Much less than the type, I'd say it's more important to keep them clean, well maintained, and well taped.
Really, it all comes down to the person flicking in the end. Give me Dan Kellner's foil, and I'll still barely land mediocre shots to the font shoulder, give Dan mine, and he'll light up every square inch of his opponent's lame.
Edit: maybe you're talking epee, I was talking about foil.
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Last edited by erooMynohtnA; 06-30-2008 at 07:55 PM.
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06-30-2008, 07:54 PM
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#3 | | "The Judge"
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,025
| i saw one of the new LP tips, and i feel like they would probably make flicking easier. and safer on your barrel in general | 
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06-30-2008, 08:18 PM
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#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Houston, but South
Posts: 1,957
| Quote:
Originally Posted by erooMynohtnA  Yes, they do, but not that much.
I've heard good things about the FWF next gen, but I haven't tried them myself. I've had some success with a budget knockoff of the Schermasport screwless.
Much less than the type, I'd say it's more important to keep them clean, well maintained, and well taped.
Really, it all comes down to the person flicking in the end. Give me Dan Kellner's foil, and I'll still barely land mediocre shots to the font shoulder, give Dan mine, and he'll light up every square inch of his opponent's lame.
Edit: maybe you're talking epee, I was talking about foil. | If I remember correctly, Chinbeard fences epee. But thanks for talking about it anyways :P
It'll be handy for foillists who look here for information about that.
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06-30-2008, 09:29 PM
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#5 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: USA
Posts: 1,076
| Quote:
Originally Posted by chinbeard If so, which points are the best? German? LP? Screwless? | Obviously there is more to flicking than a good point. That said, you should take every advantage and all things considered I'd rather have a smooth point.
Some guys are experts at making a point smooth. I have a friend that is a highly ranked Vet (VM) that takes it to another level. Baking soda, crocous cloths, jewler's rouge and black magic.
I don't have that patience or time, so I go with FWFs. They are great right from the start (their weight springs just seem perfect, too).
R-
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06-30-2008, 10:49 PM
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#6 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Venice Beach, CA
Posts: 1,248
| Nope.
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07-01-2008, 12:07 PM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Philly
Posts: 630
| Quote:
Originally Posted by piste off Obviously there is more to flicking than a good point. That said, you should take every advantage and all things considered I'd rather have a smooth point.
Some guys are experts at making a point smooth. I have a friend that is a highly ranked Vet (VM) that takes it to another level. Baking soda, crocous cloths, jewler's rouge and black magic.
I don't have that patience or time, so I go with FWFs. They are great right from the start (their weight springs just seem perfect, too).
R- | Then there are the fencers who choose their FWF point based on smooth travel and go from there. 
How does a smooth point help the flick? By widening the envelope. A smooth point will allow a marginal flick to score, whereas a marginal point may require a near-perfect flick to score...
A smooth point widens the angle at which force on the tip will register.
$.02 | |
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07-01-2008, 01:41 PM
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#8 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Indiana
Posts: 218
| I hardly ever flick with foil, not that I have anything against it, I just never practice it so I have lousy point control. Every now and then I'll get a good one on a new fencer in my club, but that's just when I feel like showing off for some cute girl that happens to be watching :-p
As far as epee goes, I've got german points and they are very sensitive. I've gotten several touches with a flick to the top or bottom of the hand and my opponent wouldn't have known it if the score box didn't beep. | |
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07-01-2008, 03:02 PM
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#9 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: USA
Posts: 1,076
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Fechter1 Then there are the fencers who choose their FWF point based on smooth travel and go from there. | Excellent idea... Thanks for the tip.
R-
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07-18-2008, 05:38 PM
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#10 | | Member
Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Galveston, TX
Posts: 92
| Well I think I'm going to order either a LP Teflon or a FWF epee point, just to try it out. That is, unless rewiring with LP or German wire is required.
Is it? | |
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07-18-2008, 05:52 PM
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#11 | | Madness?
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,916
| If you want to put on a new point you'll need to rewire.
If you're asking if the wires are compatable, they are.
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07-18-2008, 05:55 PM
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#12 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Venice Beach, CA
Posts: 1,248
| No, wires are pretty much interchangable, for the most part. I prefer the german wires, as they have the ridges that stick up around the contact points, which help to prevent the contact spring from grounding out on the inside of the barrel. I've really found the LP GT epee points to be the smoothest I've ever used, however, they do seem to rust a bit quicker. Also, I've had a horrible time with all German points and keeping the screws in. They will usually fall out at least once a week, and almost guaranteed to lose at least one during a tournament, usually more. In the year or so that I've been using the LP GT tips, I've only had two screws fall out... Ever. Even when using the German points, I will use the LP tip screws, because they're a tiny bit wider and stay in place better. However, if you do this, you won't be able to use German tip screws in the tip any more, as the threading has expanded due to the slightly wider LP screws... Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
At any rate, I think that it can possibly have more to do with how well you maintain and upkeep your points. Even the best can be horrible, if not properly cared for, and even crappy parts can be used to make a smoothly traveling point, if properly cleaned and put together.
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Last edited by seven6ty; 07-18-2008 at 06:06 PM.
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07-18-2008, 05:55 PM
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#13 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 351
| Forget the flick...the flick is dead! But, if you must German are the best and Screwless is the worst. Keep them clean and "crunchy" is bad. Use the same pistol grip on all your foils....don't switch around.
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07-18-2008, 06:22 PM
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#14 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Indiana
Posts: 218
| Quote:
Originally Posted by MdA Use the same pistol grip on all your foils....don't switch around. | This is what I try to tell members in my club, and they all look at me as if I'm retarded. I've got the same grip on my practice weapons as i do my electrics (both foil and epee).
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07-19-2008, 04:33 PM
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#15 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: USA
Posts: 1,076
| Quote:
Originally Posted by erooMynohtnA If you want to put on a new point you'll need to rewire.
If you're asking if the wires are compatable, they are. | Truth... you will have to rewire to add the new point.
And use Absolute wires (the Chinese ones), they are the best. Much better than the Allstar/Uhlmann/FWF/whatever ones. Double-insulated and a tad thicker, or at least they don't break as much at stress points like where they connect to the sockets. Also about a buck cheaper.
R-
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07-20-2008, 03:19 AM
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#16 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Beaverton, OR, USA
Posts: 1,473
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Forget the flick...the flick is dead! But, if you must German are the best and Screwless is the worst. Keep them clean and "crunchy" is bad.
| Actually, in my experience, a sticky (dented barrel) tip could actually be beneficial! If the tip sticks, it's more likely to stay depressed long enough to trigger the debounce; even if it doesn't remain in contact with the lame long enough to fully debounce, you'll get an off-target instead of no light.
Of course, if it's too dented, it'll take too much force to actually depress the tip in the first place.
darius | |
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07-20-2008, 08:30 AM
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#17 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,381
| Quote:
Originally Posted by darius Of course, if it's too dented, it'll take too much force to actually depress the tip in the first place. | That's for my opponent's to worry about...
AE | |
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07-20-2008, 10:36 AM
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#18 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ask.
Posts: 479
| Quote:
Originally Posted by MdA Forget the flick...the flick is dead! | Wishing there was a sarcasm detector here to see if you're joking...
The flick is far from dead - watching top level MF will quickly demonstrate that.
In foil (and I realise the OP is an epeeist) it'd probably be a better investment of your time to do extra footwork rather than spent a lot of effort fettling your points - if you get the distance wrong now you won't get a light on.
Get it right, and you can hit 90%.
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07-20-2008, 11:22 AM
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#19 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,467
| While I definitely don't want to be screwed over by my gear, I don't spend much time on my points anymore.
Just buy german parts and replace them all twice a year.
Then quit worrying about it.
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07-20-2008, 10:41 PM
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#20 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 700
| Quote:
Originally Posted by piste off And use Absolute wires (the Chinese ones), they are the best. Much better than the Allstar/Uhlmann/FWF/whatever ones. Double-insulated and a tad thicker, or at least they don't break as much at stress points like where they connect to the sockets. Also about a buck cheaper.
R- | QFT. Absolutely the best.
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