Do Points Affect Flick Success?

[rdg]

I realize the question is about tips, but it seems to me that the most important part is a very good, flexible blade. You want one that bends perfectly and snaps back into shape almost immediately. Otherwise you are parrying the repost with a noodle.

Sam

[Pescados666]

Stiff blade, strong hands.

[chinbeard]

I was browsing the paper catalog that TCA sent me with my last order, and came across these things called "Sport 7" tips, which supposedly marry the best of the French and German designs, and are backwards compatible with French barrels. Would this make a difference, or should I just wait and do a complete rewire with FWF points after the wires break/barrels implode?

[MdA]

Originally Posted by chinbeard

I was browsing the paper catalog that TCA sent me with my last order, and came across these things called "Sport 7" tips, which supposedly marry the best of the French and German designs, and are backwards compatible with French barrels. Would this make a difference, or should I just wait and do a complete rewire with FWF points after the wires break/barrels implode?

Wait and rewire with FWF...good German engineering.

[SJCFU#2]

Originally Posted by chinbeard

I was browsing the paper catalog that TCA sent me with my last order, and came across these things called "Sport 7" tips, which supposedly marry the best of the French and German designs, and are backwards compatible with French barrels. Would this make a difference, or should I just wait and do a complete rewire with FWF points after the wires break/barrels implode?

I would stick with the FWF point with their X-tra barrel (just don't use too much tape).

Sport 7 may be an improvement over Prieur and HGB, but it's a bit of a stretch to call it a "marriage of the best of French and German". They still tend to suffer from many of the same flaws as other French tips, including holes that can be difficult to align and inconsistent manufacturing from one batch to the next.

In fact, if you bought a French tip from almost any American vendor within the last few years there is a good chance that it was Sport 7.

[HDG]

Originally Posted by chinbeard

I was browsing the paper catalog that TCA sent me with my last order, and came across these things called "Sport 7" tips, which supposedly marry the best of the French and German designs, and are backwards compatible with French barrels. Would this make a difference, or should I just wait and do a complete rewire with FWF points after the wires break/barrels implode?

They're garbage. They have a nasty habit of coming apart in the barrel. I learned the hard way that this doesn't give you a telltale white light.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by chinbeard

I was browsing the paper catalog that TCA sent me with my last order, and came across these things called "Sport 7" tips, which supposedly marry the best of the French and German designs, and are backwards compatible with French barrels. Would this make a difference, or should I just wait and do a complete rewire with FWF points after the wires break/barrels implode?

Those aren'tSport 7...Sport 7 is a standard French tip....the tip they sent that supposedly has the best of both worlds is basically a German with a French collar...and screws are are not compatible with others (real smart, guys)

They suck, IMO....go for the FWF NextGen point...basically a German with a thicker barrel.

[chinbeard]

Originally Posted by SJCFU#2

I would stick with the FWF point with their X-tra barrel (just don't use too much tape).

Sport 7 may be an improvement over Prieur and HGB, but it's a bit of a stretch to call it a "marriage of the best of French and German". They still tend to suffer from many of the same flaws as other French tips, including holes that can be difficult to align and inconsistent manufacturing from one batch to the next.

In fact, if you bought a French tip from almost any American vendor within the last few years there is a good chance that it was Sport 7.

I didn't see any NextGen tips for epee on FDN. Is there such a thing? (A Google search didn't turn up anything either...)

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by chinbeard

I didn't see any NextGen tips for epee on FDN. Is there such a thing? (A Google search didn't turn up anything either...)

They're foil only....epee tips don't have the same issues as thinner foil barrels did.

[brtech]

There are significantly fewer differences between epee points then with foil points. Nearly all the major brands are roughly the same. The biggest difference is the screwless designs vs the "traditional" two screw design. For whatever reason, the quality of the french parts is roughly equal to the german parts, and even most of the chinese epee parts appear to work pretty well. The new knockoff of the Schermasport tip even looks pretty good, although we don't have enough experience with it.

It really is best to settle on a manufacturer and stick with parts from that one manufacturer. There are some subtle differences.

I think I'd settle on LP or FWF these days. Screwless designs have their pluses and minuses. They are a pain to set up. However, once set, they tend to stay set, and you don't lose screws.

If you really want the best, I think the Schermasport is probably the best epee tip out there. I've seen a lot of Estocs; they are pretty nice, but not in the same class as the Schermasport. All the epees I work on a lot have Uhlmann parts, but if I started over today, it would be FWF.

In foil, I'd go with FWF nextgen. I recently ran an experiment with my daughter's foil blades. Two new blades with new tips, one FWF one LP. The LP was factory wired, the FWF I did. I teach her not to fall in love with a particular blade, but it doesn't always work out that way. Nevertheless, the two new blades got about the same amount of use. I tracked how often problems were reported. The FWF had fewer problems overall. That's my general experience with them. They ARE NOT maintenance free, they are just less maintenance and more reliabe than the others. I do not have any significant experience with the Estoc screwless, but the experience I had was bad.

[counterattack]

I'd just add that you should add a step to your armory for the night before tourneys. You should really feel out each tip. Depress it until it lights from all different angles and feel for any catching or rubbing. I always clean out the barrel with a cotton swab and alcohol as well, on the tip as well as the barrel. Also, only re-use barrels between rewires if they are in good shape. I determine good shape by inserting a tip into the barrel and spinning it around at each level of insertion into the point. Some people lube their points with various things. I do not but only because I am chicken and haven't had problems since I started throwing out used barrels that showed wear and started cleaning with alcohol regularly. If you lose touches due to your equipment you are really short changing yourself.

-philip

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by counterattack

Some people lube their points with various things.

AHHH!!! NYET!!! Lube attracts dust and dirt like a freakin' magnet....don't do it.

[countambrosius]

The flick requires technique, I doesn't matter about the tip, since you still have to have a force between 500-750 grams. And all tips do that. If you have the power you can flick with any blade or tip at any time.

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by Pescados666

Stiff blade, strong hands.

Remember, if Phoebe Cates is involved, be sure to lock the door.

[MdA]

Originally Posted by countambrosius

The flick requires technique, I doesn't matter about the tip, since you still have to have a force between 500-750 grams. And all tips do that. If you have the power you can flick with any blade or tip at any time.

OK. You can have the two French screwless I bought to try them out...including wrenches. I will keep using the FWFs.

[counterattack]

Originally Posted by countambrosius

The flick requires technique, I doesn't matter about the tip, since you still have to have a force between 500-750 grams. And all tips do that. If you have the power you can flick with any blade or tip at any time.

I STRONGLY disagree with this. It doesn't take that much wrong with a tip to make any hit that is not directly on the middle of the tip (that is most flicks) grab the sides of the barrel. It takes 750grams of weight, being pulled STRAIGHT DOWN by gravity. Very few hits are straight down. Clean your tips, test your tips carefully from all angles, throw out any bad ones. Anyone who tells you otherwise is costing you touches. However, brands are not the most important thing. Any brand kept in good clean shape, and discarded when old or damaged, should allow a flick. That being said, some tips seem to get "old and damaged" at slower rates. Listen to the armorers for god's sake.

-ph

[counterattack]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

AHHH!!! NYET!!! Lube attracts dust and dirt like a freakin' magnet....don't do it.

Yeah, that was how I felt about it. If you lube then you'd have to clean them out daily it seems. I have had good results with just cleaning. Love your weapons. Raise them yourself from wee bare blades. Clean them regularly. Listen to their complaints. Score many touches and win. Hooray.

A flick is no different from the tip's perspective than a lunge that just grabs the corner of the glove with edge of the tip and only scores after the foible is quite bent. You need well functioning tips for this.

I know I am posting a lot on this thread, but I really feel strongly about this. I see so many epeeists with such sadly maintained weapons and not surprisingly it is the same guys who have weapon problems every tourney and are saying things like "in my last DE at the tourney this past weekend I just couldn't buy a touch, then at practice on Tuesday I find out the weapon I was using was marginal." Every epeeist has this happen a few times in their career, but don't let it be you even once a season. Love your weapons.

-ph