Epee rewiring cost/time?

[jkdjeff]

I got my first electric epee (been using club gear while I switched for from foil) this weekend...and of course, it needs to be rewired already due to not being put together properly.

I'm going to go back to the vendor that sold it to me and try to get resolution from them (BG via a local salle), but it may very well be easier and cheaper to get it fixed locally.

So, two questions regarding rewiring:

1) What's a reasonable amount to pay?

2) How much time does it usually take?

I'm sure there's variability among people who do it (I'm in the Seattle area) but if it's only going to run me like $20 and I can find someone to do it quickly, that might be the easiest resolution.

Thanks in advance!

[rdg]

Originally Posted by jkdjeff

I'm going to go back to the vendor that sold it to me and try to get resolution from them (BG via a local salle), but it may very well be easier and cheaper to get it fixed locally.

So, two questions regarding rewiring:

1) What's a reasonable amount to pay?

2) How much time does it usually take?

It seems like the going rate for rewiring is about $25.00.

It takes about 24 hours for the cement to dry, plus shipping both ways, plus time in the queue. So when I used to ship blades back to vendors for repair, it took about 2 weeks.

Because wires are always popping out or breaking, the best bet is to get a kit of tools and do it yourself. With a little practice you can rebuild a blade using cement-it, including dry time, in a couple of days. If you use super glue you can go a lot faster.

Sam

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by rdg

It seems like the going rate for rewiring is about $25.00.

It takes about 24 hours for the cement to dry, plus shipping both ways, plus time in the queue. So when I used to ship blades back to vendors for repair, it took about 2 weeks.

Because wires are always popping out or breaking, the best bet is to get a kit of tools and do it yourself. With a little practice you can rebuild a blade using cement-it, including dry time, in a couple of days. If you use super glue you can go a lot faster.

Sam

If I get a complete weapon with the wire installed...I take it apart and let the blade soak in the acetone tank overnight...after the final cleaning of the blade...30 minutes (building in some inturruptions there). My rates, $10 plus parts (if necessarry)...shipping $5.

I use superglue and an accelerant....no need to let it sit for a day...it's ready to hit the strip (as far as the glue being dry goes) in about 5 second.

[jkdjeff]

Originally Posted by rdg

Because wires are always popping out or breaking, the best bet is to get a kit of tools and do it yourself. With a little practice you can rebuild a blade using cement-it, including dry time, in a couple of days. If you use super glue you can go a lot faster.

I'd actually love to give this a try, but I'm not confident I'd be able to do it myself without mucking things up further, nor am I 100% sure I'd have access to the necessary tools.

What happened with the weapon was: The tang wasn't cut down far enough (pistol grip) so the hex nut on the end wouldn't go down all the way, thus making the grip loose.

This caused the wire to feed back up through the bell guard along the blade; by the time I realized what was going on, apparently the bell guard had cut through the insulation and caused the wiring to short out (the wires themselves might be damaged too, I didn't want to take it apart to see).

Understanding that people are giving feedback without seeing what the weapon looks like...does it seem like it should be possible to fix the insulation somehow, or is a complete rewire of the weapon what it'll take?

[DHCJr]

It can be done.

It depends are how much wire and your skill with a soldering iron.

First see how much wire is there past the blade/tang junction.

You will need to bare both the wire coming out and the wire you will be connecting to it. This not only the cloth, but any varnish.

Twist the two VERY tightly together and solder the joint.

You can almost say you will be tining the joint. There should be no glob or large amount of solder.

Try it first with scrap wire as this will help with your technique.

[jkdjeff]

As far as amount of wire goes, seems like there should be plenty (if anything, it looked like there might be TOO MUCH wire, exacerbating the problem).

Soldering skill, pretty much nonexistent, but our salle does have an armory room, so maybe I will try to get someone to help me take it apart and look it over to see whether major surgery will be required.

[brtech]

Are you coming to summer nationals? Bring it by the armory table and we will show you how to do it.

DHCJr has given you the clues:

• clean wire
• mechanical joint (twisting), then solder
• very little solder

To that I would add that the hardest part is usually getting the joint small enough so that the spaghetti slides over it. The key is the twist. You want it really "in line" with the wires, not sticking up. Hard to describe, easy to show.
You cross the wires in an X. Then bend the part of one wire that is over the cross point around the other wire below the cross point. Then do the same with the other pair. Tight twists, only 1-2 revolutions per side. Straighten the joint, then trim off the ends. It should be barely wider than twice the wire thickness. Easiest to use a small soldering iron. Heat the joint, then touch the solder to the joint. Very small amount, but it has to flow around the twists. Molten solder wicks very well.

Now, having described the right way, I always just overlap the two ends, and solder, no twisting. However, I've soldered joints on this size wire for many, many years. No, it doesn't break. The spaghetti keeps the ends from prying apart, which is the usual failure for that kind of joint. The trick is how you hold it and solder it. I use no tools except the soldering gun (yeah, I do it with my gun if I have to).

[jkdjeff]

Nope, won't be coming to Summer Nationals (still mostly a beginner) but there's been lots of great info in this thread. I'm going to sit tight for a day or two to see if I hear back from the vendor, but at least it seems like this is a relatively simple fix if their response isn't workable.

Thank you all for your help!

[Nolano]

I'm not sure about costs, I'd probably charge about $10 plus parts. It's gotten to the point where the blade spends longer in the acetone than it takes me to rewire it.

[brtech]

If you are really waiting for it, then use a heat gun instead of an acetone pipe.
You can do a complete epee rewire in about 15 min, although I usually take longer, and Ted Li can do it in half my time. About 5 min to remove the old wire, 5 min to get the new wire in and glued and 5 min to reassemble if you don't need a shim re-adjustment.

If you aren't waiting on the acetone, then it doesn't matter how long it takes, right?

I usually charge $15 + parts, but I'm not making a living armoring.

[jjefferies]

Originally Posted by brtech

If you are really waiting for it, then use a heat gun instead of an acetone pipe.
You can do a complete epee rewire in about 15 min, although I usually take longer, and Ted Li can do it in half my time. About 5 min to remove the old wire, 5 min to get the new wire in and glued and 5 min to reassemble if you don't need a shim re-adjustment.

If you aren't waiting on the acetone, then it doesn't matter how long it takes, right?

I usually charge $15 + parts, but I'm not making a living armoring.

Discounting the acetone bath time, I usually take at least half an hour. But I like to make sure the gunk (technical term) is really off the blade. And then I tack down the wires before starting to run superglue down the blades. And I like for the glue to dry between coats. So I'd like to watch your 15 minutes to see the differences.

On the other hand these days I only do my own blades and I never want to see a wire pop off. So taking my time makes sense tome.

[mikeb]

Originally Posted by jkdjeff

I'd actually love to give this a try, but I'm not confident I'd be able to do it myself without mucking things up further, nor am I 100% sure I'd have access to the necessary tools.

If you have an armoury at your club they must have the correct tool. Look on Leon Paul website for the armoury section.

http://www.leonpaul.com/armoury/armoury.htm

Gives a very clear description of how to re-wire a blade.

What better way to learn than to do it yourself.

[KD5MDK]

Don't assume. That said, as he probably didn't buy a LP blade he won't need the special wire setter to fit in the groove.

[jkdjeff]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Don't assume. That said, as he probably didn't buy a LP blade he won't need the special wire setter to fit in the groove.

Nope, it's an STM blade. (non-FIE if it matters)

The plan is to tear it apart in our club's armory tomorrow night with someone to help me diagnose whether it's just the spaghetti tubing being cut by the bell guard and the wires shorting together (which is what I suspect is happening) or if there is an actual wire break (which is possible also).

[thekoby]

Originally Posted by mikeb

If you have an armoury at your club they must have the correct tool. Look on Leon Paul website for the armoury section.

http://www.leonpaul.com/armoury/armoury.htm

Gives a very clear description of how to re-wire a blade.

What better way to learn than to do it yourself.

I bought the weapon glue from Leon Paul on a whim to round my total out to $20 cause all I wanted were the clear epee pads and some spaghetti wire. I love it. It dries almost instantly and if used sparingly can last several weapons. It also cleans very easily using a tank and acetone. Just tossing that out there.

[fatfencer]

It's actually pretty simple.


Tools:

Jewelers Flathead screwdriver

Bottlecap/PVC Cap nunchucks....I'll explain:

take a 3 foot section of shoestring, rope or chain and connect 2 PVC caps or bottle caps by drilling a hole in the SIDE of the cap. This is used for putting a bend in the blade while drying the glue

Adjustable wrench

Lighter

Simple tester(don't NEED this per se but if you dont have one spend 10 buck and buy one. It tests you weapon to see if it is working. Just connect bodycord and weapon and depress tip. Makes life easier. Not having this tool is like being a smoker with no lighter. This tool is like cigarettes. You aren't REALLY a smoker until you buy your own cigs and lighter. If you are bumming off friends you are a mooch

Super Glue

That's pretty much it. You do need spaghetti tubing.


The wire is covered in cloth. take the last 1 inch section of each wire and light the insulation with the lighter. Like 2 seconds and thats it. Don't want to make the wire brittle.

Run the wires thru the barrel of the point about two inches and then screw it on the blade. Do not pull all the way thru until barrel is screwed on tight enough that you hear a small click. At that point the barrel is on tightly and the threads have run out. Hence the small clicking sound.

Now pull the wires thru until the white plastic cup at the top touches the rim of the barrel. AS YOU PULL GENTLY, use a small screwdriver to seat the cup at the bottom of the barrel by pushing. The pulling makes sure the wires dont get crinkled up inside the barrel.

Now. Grab the spaghetti tubing and cut off two 8 inch sections. Slide the tubing onto the wires. Make sure the last .5 inch of the wire is exposed.

Try and make sure the wires are NOT twisted as the emerge from the barrel. Make sure they lay smooth. These wires are all folded in a baggie when you get them so I tell everyone to really run you fingers down the wire to smooth out any kinks. Anyways make sure they lay as flat as possible so the gluing takes.

Gently pull taut the wires and make sure that the spaghetti tubing part of the wires now sit in the groove of the tang. Make sure the tubing does not protrude in FRONT OF the bell guard. Could cause a touch and is illegal.

Put your left thumb over the tubing/wires and take your right hand in proceed to wrap the tubing/wires around the tang NEATLY. Grab a piece of tape and tape them there.

Grab your pvc numchucks and put the tip in one end and the tang in the other. This will put a nice beng in the foible and seat the wire in the bottom of the groove. If the wires are not nice and taut they should be. Go back and fix. It's very obvious stuff.

Once everything is taut and the wires are not crinkled and are straight and not crossing over each other. Then grab your superglue and be extremely liberal. I use like 30 drops of superglue. Use your jewelers screwdriver or a toothpick to make sure the wire is seated.

Once that is done and dried just assemble your weapon(guard, socket, grip, pommel). Keep in mind for an epee the wires come thru the guard, thru the hole of the socket that the tang passes thru and then BEHIND the socket itself to connect. To make sure you dont monkey with the wires while bouting :-)

Once your weapon is fully assembled now you can assemble assemble your tip.

Make sure your big spring is nice and tough or else stretch your spring from ONE end only AND user your jewelers screwdriver to hold your spring while you light it for 30 secs or so. Makes the spring tougher. Don't try handling it right away or you will burn yourself. The stretched end goes downward first into the barrel.

Put your tip in and put the screws in and voila!! Done.

Now your epee works. Hopefully someone in your club has a 750 gram test weight and shims. If not you can still use it to fence with until you get with an armorer to tune your epees to whatever tolerance you like.

Fatfencer

PS: Or you could just switch to foil and have a much less temperamental weapon.

[fatfencer]

Originally Posted by thekoby

I bought the weapon glue from Leon Paul on a whim to round my total out to $20 cause all I wanted were the clear epee pads and some spaghetti wire. I love it. It dries almost instantly and if used sparingly can last several weapons. It also cleans very easily using a tank and acetone. Just tossing that out there.

Another thing about Leon Paul is that they give you all the parts to MAKE your own Foil wires.

I do wish they'd put out a little vid on the subject of making a foil wire using their parts. I did figger it out. but I dont solder well.

Fatfencer

[mikeb]

Originally Posted by thekoby

It dries almost instantly and if used sparingly can last several weapons.

Should last several years, had to buy my second tub this year. Had the other for about 5 years and there was still plenty left, i just didn't put the lid back on properly and it all dried up!!

Originally Posted by fatfencer

It's actually pretty simple.

Tools:

Bottlecap/PVC Cap nunchucks....I'll explain:

take a 3 foot section of shoestring, rope or chain and connect 2 PVC caps or bottle caps by drilling a hole in the SIDE of the cap. This is used for putting a bend in the blade while drying the glue

I used to use some string and a 35mm film case but the string kept snapping or the case would fly off.

I now use some small chain ( 2 sections: 60cm and 40cm) with a carabeena to adjust the length. Have some copper pipe ends fitted with a key ring link to sit over the tip and tang/handle.

[thekoby]

Should last several years, had to buy my second tub this year. Had the other for about 5 years and there was still plenty left, i just didn't put the lid back on properly and it all dried up!!

yeah, my problem was that when it laid down on its side in my tool box it leaked out, so I had to staple a velcro strap to the side of my tool box so I could have it sit upright.

A thing about the Leon Paul kits is that I think they are a bit over priced. I put my tool kit together with tools bought from Wal-Mart. The only real things in the tool kit I had to buy online was the outside hex wrench and shim tester.

Also, tossing this out there for people looking to rewire epees (and foils too), but don't have a tip setter, I use a small torx-tip screw driver. I don't know the exact size number, but it's the same size screwdriver I use to take apart my xbox 360 controllers.