Difference in Lunge Instruction

[headcut]

Originally Posted by tdwg83

You have the foundation for a good lunge.

1. Extend
2. Toe up
3. front leg kicks/back leg pushes

Would like to add my 2¢ if I may on a classical lunge as I learned it... Hope my technique is not too old...

When the back leg pushes off (it should straighten as if trying to jump forward using the back leg) as the front leg kicks out. The front leg should kick out (reaching but not high) and then "slap" the floor as it comes down back under your knee. Check to make sure the back knee is 100% straight (not locked) when the front leg is kicked out. It is this last bit of leg straightening that gives you that dynamic lunge. My coach used to hold his blade behind my back knee (not touching) where it is supposed to end up at the end of the lunge. If I didn't touch the blade, I didn't perform the lunge properly. I think you will be amazed at the number of people who don't fully straighten the back leg during the dynamic part of the lunge. They are leaving extra power in a bent knee.

Also, the back foot should be flat. I know there are a lot of fencers who roll the foot (modern). This makes recovering backwards from a lunge a little more difficult as you should be pulling with the back foot (and pushing with the front) to recover backwards.

[darius]

Does anybody here know much about how the Italians do lunge pedagogy?

I watched a lot of the Italian WF team in Vegas, and each athlete seemed to know the correct moments to make a short lunge, long desperation lunge, lunge with the arm held back to hit on the remise, or waiting lunge with multiple hand tempos.

Neat stuff, but I haven't encountered much in the common fencing literature or from anybody I've ever worked with.

darius

[fatfencer]

I wish I had that answer.

I suspect that they are just inherently musical people with a real sense of rhythm and timing.

Not to say that it isnt teachable but music and movement seem definitely a part of their cultural awareness.

Part of this is based on something I think Gladius posted a few years back about Maestro Di Ciolo's Pisa fencing style. Some of the terms used were musical like andante or moderato.

Regardless they seem to have fencers with the best foot work.

I did notice that their steps never really leave the ground. Very quick heel toe movements with deep stances. There never seems to be a time where their center of gravity moves away from the ground.

As for the different types of lunges thing and how to teach a lunge...one thing I do to help me lunge better after considerable time off is this exercise.

Get into a low stance toes pointed forward hands pushing DOWN on hips with lower back tucked under so that the behind doesnt protrude.

Now take small jumps from side to side and think about slowly increasing the width of that jump. As you laterally stretch-jump right you push with you left leg and really grab for distance with that right leg. Now turn your feet at right angles to one another and you have a very deep en guarde. Bring it back to normal and repeat.

Back leg pushes, front leg grabs.


Fatfencer

PS: I would love to get Sanzo to write up some of the stuff they do and post it here.

[Allen Evans]

Originally Posted by darius

..... but I haven't encountered much in the common fencing literature or from anybody I've ever worked with.

There's almost nothing in the common fencing literature (in English anyway) about fencing in general, let along at that detail. I think I suggested a few years ago that anyone doing a degree in kinesiology would be well served by talking about lunging -- it's a very complicated motion and hardly anyone has looked at it.

One of the things I've noticed a lot about the Italians (by watching the men on video) is how dynamic their body positions are. Often you'll see Italian fencers almost standing straight up when out of distance, and then "stepping into" a deeper stance as they get ready to lunge. Cause? or Effect? I couldn't tell you.

Allen

[D'Art]

I would hazard a guess that they've just been so well drilled at their footwork especially that they just instinctively know when to be relaxed and when to be focussed in terms of where their opponent is. That would logically lead to them also knowing what type of lunge to do and why. At least that's what I think, after giving it around three seconds consideration.

[Don Badowski]

If speed is your main objective, and you think the students are ready for it, introduce them to the explosive lunge. From en guarde, all four limbs moving out at once as fast as possible. it doesn't make for a very long lunge, that's not the reason you'd do one. But as students progress they should be made aware of the major lunge types.

[keith]

Originally Posted by darius

Does anybody here know much about how the Italians do lunge pedagogy?

I watched a lot of the Italian WF team in Vegas, and each athlete seemed to know the correct moments to make a short lunge, long desperation lunge, lunge with the arm held back to hit on the remise, or waiting lunge with multiple hand tempos.

Neat stuff, but I haven't encountered much in the common fencing literature or from anybody I've ever worked with.

darius

I suspect that the pedagogy developed by Di Rosa would be the prevalent one.

Go badger Gladius to track down and translate the transcripts of the coaching seminars Di Rosa did for the FIS - I believe there are several.