July 2008 Board of Directors Meeting

[seak]

In fact I believe the report has been presented, and that a preliminary copy was posted in the thread USFA Finance back in March.

[HDG]

Ti-for-tat with the ad homs.

[heretic]

re-read what you quoted... According to heretic (and the public record), Greg was made chair of the audit committee at 2008 JO's, which was 4 months (and more importantly, one Board meeting) ago.

Thus, holding him accountable for a report being overdue by 11 months is a wee bit disingenuous, especially since he got the report to the board at the very next meeting after he was put on the committee.

-m

501c3 corporations are legally required to file an independently audited financial report. The report must be filed at the end of the fiscal year (USFA's fiscal is 8/1 - 7/31). In most non-profits, the CFO and treasurer have the responsibility to make sure this gets done. The report is a public record, and anyone can see a copy on demand.

After the 900,000+ loss was posted on the State of CO website, I asked for a copy of the report from Alperstein and was told it was not yet completed. At the JOs, Dilworth's committee was charged with the responsibility for getting this done, in addition to providing a detailed transparent analysis of the USFA's finances. I asked Dilworth to supply me with a copy of the report as soon as it was completed. He informed me that the independent auditors (apparently a CO accounting firm employed by several other NGBs in this capacity) were scheduled to complete this task "shortly" (no specific date given) and he was to participate in a conference call that would provide additional clarification later that week (this was back in March). Others and I have asked for the report since then. We have received nothing.

As per "epeemike81," Dilworth "got the report to the board at the very next meeting after he was put on the committee." What board meeting was that, and why isn't the report public? From his statement, It seems reasonable to infer that epeemike81 has seen the report. Since I can't get a copy of the report from Dilworth, can epeemike81 share it with us and make a liar out of me?

How about it epeemike81?

[epeemike81]

501c3 corporations are legally required to file an independently audited financial report. The report must be filed at the end of the fiscal year (USFA's fiscal is 8/1 - 7/31). In most non-profits, the CFO and treasurer have the responsibility to make sure this gets done. The report is a public record, and anyone can see a copy on demand.

After the 900,000+ loss was posted on the State of CO website, I asked for a copy of the report from Alperstein and was told it was not yet completed. At the JOs, Dilworth's committee was charged with the responsibility for getting this done, in addition to providing a detailed transparent analysis of the USFA's finances. I asked Dilworth to supply me with a copy of the report as soon as it was completed. He informed me that the independent auditors (apparently a CO accounting firm employed by several other NGBs in this capacity) were scheduled to complete this task "shortly" (no specific date given) and he was to participate in a conference call that would provide additional clarification later that week (this was back in March). Others and I have asked for the report since then. We have received nothing.

As per "epeemike81," Dilworth "got the report to the board at the very next meeting after he was put on the committee." What board meeting was that, and why isn't the report public? From his statement, It seems reasonable to infer that epeemike81 has seen the report. Since I can't get a copy of the report from Dilworth, can epeemike81 share it with us and make a liar out of me?

How about it epeemike81?

did you specify when asking Donald that you wanted the FY07 report, not the FY08 report? His response that it wasn't yet compiled implies to me he may have thought you were looking for this year's report.

As to the report, I have no specific knowledge that it was presented. I clearly must have misread one of the other statements on this thread and interpreted it as meaning that it was presented 11 months overdue, rather than is currently 11 months overdue and not yet presented (though, as my first paragraph indicates, I am far from convinced that it indeed has not been filed).

btw, you say (quite correctly) that this report is usually compiled by the Treasurer or CFO. For the record, Mr. Dilworth currently holds neither of those positions in the USFA, so holding him responsible for this remains quite bizarre.

-m

[heretic]

Are you serious? Of course I asked Alperstein for the '07 report. Fiscal 08 isn't even over yet (but that report, if it is ever done, should be a real doozy)! As I suspected, you were blowing smoke.

BTW, that letter posted on the USFA website jointly by the Audit and Budget Finance Committees is not the report in question. It was a palliative with no substantial financial data.

I'm still waiting, epeemike81.

[nahouw]

Are you serious? Of course I asked Alperstein for the '07 report. Fiscal 08 isn't even over yet (but that report, if it is ever done, should be a real doozy)!

I think it is reasonable for Eric to have received a copy of the report that he requested by now, since from the release on the USFA website from the USFA addressing the press release of the USOC has this quote in it:

"As is customary, the U.S. Fencing Association underwent an extensive detailed audit by an independent CPA from October 2007 through April 2008. The completed audit showed no evidence of misappropriation of any funds. "

[MyrddinsPrecint]

I'm still waiting, epeemike81.

Wait............ You've gone from holding Greg Dilworth, who is neither CFO nor Treasurer, responsible for financials...

To holding Epeemike responsible for financials?????????????


While I find it somewhat reasonable that Mr. Dilworth should probably either be able to help you, or figure out who can help you..... perhaps Mike is not who I would contact next.......

[keith]

To holding Epeemike responsible for financials?????????????

No he is asking him to come good on his insinuations. While Heretics style may not be to folks liking his question is pertinent.

While I find it somewhat reasonable that Mr. Dilworth should probably either be able to help you, or figure out who can help you..... perhaps Mike is not who I would contact next.......

.... and yet if the responsible parties do not respond Mike or Mickey would seem to be the next best source.

[tchwojko]

No he is asking him to come good on his insinuations. While Heretics style may not be to folks liking his question is pertinent.

Given his tone and name calling, why would one take what heretic said as factual and objective? It's not "style", it's credibility, sane discourse, and trying to do the things one needs to do to get the results you want. I don't believe heretic wants to solve his problem. I believe he wants to rant and cast aspersions.

It's the "When did you stop beating your dog?" type of questioning that precludes answering the real issues.

[stillchris]

Given his tone and name calling, why would one take what heretic said as factual and objective? It's not "style", it's credibility, sane discourse, and trying to do the things one needs to do to get the results you want. I don't believe heretic wants to solve his problem. I believe he wants to rant and cast aspersions.

It's the "When did you stop beating your dog?" type of questioning that precludes answering the real issues.

How much effort should it take to get public documents that were supposed to be filed a year ago? No he is not objective, his objective is to see the public financial reports. Now you can believe or not his statements about talking to Greg but I haven't seen anyone say, "oh here is the report, it was filed in an accessable public place. No one has come forth with anything substantive to answer Heretics questions. Does he need to grovel and say please for these documents? Does he need to pay 10 cents a page for copies? If I had been chasing documents for the last year I might also be a bit miffed. And yes you are complaining about his style and not saying anything about the actual questions, or statements being asked and made.

You know, a simple answer like "we missed the deadline, mistakes were made, but the report will be done by this board meeting" is all it would take for an appropriate answer, but the answer given is ...nothing, silence, whatever. The surprise to me is so many people seem to be ok with this because, you know it's Greg, and he's a good guy. He may very well be a good guy but that has nothing to do with any allegations of him ignoring Heretic. Also if he is the wrong guy who is the right guy and why is this so difficult?

It seems such a simple thing, where is the financial report? Don't say it was filed in April or whatever, where is it now and how can we look at it?

[tchwojko]

<A bunch of questions>

Notice how you did that without calling anyone names? Or impugning anyones motives? That makes it much more likely that someone will answer these important questions, and the questions are more clearly understood.

[stillchris]

Notice how you did that without calling anyone names? Or impugning anyones motives? That makes it much more likely that someone will answer these important questions, and the questions are more clearly understood.

Once again style over substance.

I don't know the answers to the questions raised. I just get tired of endless thread drift about the style of the posts, the character of the poster, the spelling , the grammar, how it sounds in Latin, why is the sky blue, what is that green stuff in oysters, as if these questions have anything to do with the original post. Rant done see you all later on the intardnet.

[HDG]

Once again style over substance.

I don't know the answers to the questions raised. I just get tired of endless thread drift about the style of the posts, the character of the poster, the spelling , the grammar, how it sounds in Latin, why is the sky blue, what is that green stuff in oysters, as if these questions have anything to do with the original post. Rant done see you all later on the intardnet.

Look, in this thread, I think I was the one who introduced a "stylistic" concern. I think Heretic's questions need answering, but I simply thought that the "Butterworth / Dilworth" name play was unbecomingly childish. I still do, no matter how irrelevant (you assert) it is to the larger issue.

[heretic]

Once again style over substance.

I don't know the answers to the questions raised. I just get tired of endless thread drift about the style of the posts, the character of the poster, the spelling , the grammar, how it sounds in Latin, why is the sky blue, what is that green stuff in oysters, as if these questions have anything to do with the original post. Rant done see you all later on the intardnet.

Thank goodness there's someone out there who gets it.

Will anyone report on today's meeting? it would be great to hear first hand accounts of what actually transpires.

[Inquartata]

And again, style and substance are not mutually exclusive, and I see no reason to try to justify having one at the cost of the other.

Practically, style is important. See how far you get in life as a journalist, in law, or in business without it. See how well you do in any profession making enemies unnecessarily by gratuitously calling them names. See how many flies you catch with vinegar...

[heretic]

Any reports from the BOD meeting?

[oiuyt]

Any reports from the BOD meeting?

It takes place tomorrow morning, so.... not yet.

-B

[OROD]

Jesus this thread is pathetic. There are obviously issues here that need to be addressed and important information that needs to be reviewed, but every other person here just seems to care about whining about who's being mean or insensitive, blah, blah...

I'd also like to know about this report and what it says. I dont really care about what logical fallacies (in latin or otherwise) are being committed.

.

[heretic]

Have any additional reports been submitted? (Specifically, the treasurers report)

[oiuyt]

Have any additional reports been submitted? (Specifically, the treasurers report)

I have posted all reports for the Board meeting that I've received.

As you know, it has not, in the past, been uncommon for additional reports to be distributed in hardcopy on the morning of the meeting.* I don't know whether there are such additional reports that will be available tomorrow (other than the budget for next season, which is still being adjusted prior to submission and vote and may include additional adjustments made by the Board).

-B

* Looking forward, I hope to help change this bit of our culture and receive/distribute ALL reports well in advance of each meeting.