Took a good shot to the throat today

[remise]

I took a horrible hit to the neck once while fencing epee. It was a freak incident where the blade slid under the bib but was caught in the collar of the jacket. However, the force was such that my throat began to swell and I nearly had to go to hospital.

[D'Artagnan1673]

Originally Posted by remise

I took a horrible hit to the neck once while fencing epee. It was a freak incident where the blade slid under the bib but was caught in the collar of the jacket. However, the force was such that my throat began to swell and I nearly had to go to hospital.

Mine must have not been as bad as I thought, because one of my mates said he's blacked out over a throat shot. My neck is stiff today, as if I had a muscle cramp, but there's barely even a visable mark on my neck.

[Gav]

Originally Posted by D'Artagnan1673

Here's a side profile of my mask.

From the looks of it there's nothing wrong with it.

Other than someone painting the mesh...

[counterattack]

Originally Posted by Gav

From the looks of it there's nothing wrong with it.

Other than someone painting the mesh...

Yeah, it seems like you were a victim of bad luck (getting hit like you did), the recipient of decent luck (it wasn't worse), and that you also need to work on keeping your chin down a bit more. I have had several hard neck hits (all in epee) and I am sure if I described them on the boards someone would scream "bad form". Maybe some were, some certainly weren't, and some were their bad form but I was the one that got hit hard. Your bib looks fine. Keep your chin down and if it happens again in the near future you can start to worry.

[Grasshopper]

Originally Posted by D'Artagnan1673

Let us, just for the moment, get past my form.

Neither of us were out of control. My opponent has 11 months of fencing and he's quite clean. My lunge was executed at good distance and his counterattack did not bend the blade... and therein lies the problem (so I think):

He was using a gold foil purchased from Blade fencing. He allowed me to handle the blade after the bout, and it was the stiffest foil I had ever handled. As stated before, I don't think was not a distance issue.

... so the modern lunge differs so much that even the head is not brought back? Just for grins... I'll post a picture of myself lunging while wearing jacket and mask so that we can judge facts rather than make ascertations.

Would like to see your form. For info in the "modern lunge" watch some international fencing on youtube and see for yourself. Why anybody would lunge throat first is beyond me... But agreed that those gold foils are way stiffer than needed.

[D'Artagnan1673]

Yesterday evening got busy and I didn't take the picture.

I really think my first objective is to get the bib issue resolved. I've fenced off and on for 8 years and I've never had the problem, but I certainly don't want to risk it again.

Here's going to be the problem with me just posting a lunge shot. Like I was said, I've been trained more in classical fencing, so I practice footwork in lunges in the classical pose. I do not necessarily, however, fence in what is considered the rigid classical stance. I prefer the move fluid and relaxed modern style, at least to a degree. I guess you could say I am more of a hybrid than anything else. Translation: I'll try to take the picture in the same way I'd lunge in a bout, but not as if I am trying for proper form.

I am glad everyone, with the exception of Gav, could resist the urge to make a comment on my mask design...

[HookUpandFence]

Epee
fencers: 2yr exp, 1 yr exp
Fencer 1: lunge
Fencer 2: half retreat and lean back with a parry
Fencer 1's blade rides up Fencer 2's chest, under the bib, and catches under the collar.
The abrasion (no steel to skin contact) is severe enough to bleed. 6 months later, there was still a shadow-like scar.
Seemed like about as close as one can get to an accidental tracheotomy with out serious injury.

[MdA]

Originally Posted by D'Artagnan1673

I am glad everyone, with the exception of Gav, could resist the urge to make a comment on my mask design...

Your right. I resisted the urge but I still recommend you get a new mask

[samh]

freak accidents like that can happen to anybody and are not necessarily the fault of either fencer or the equipment being used. I've been scratched on the throat by a blade that managed to pass under my bib and into my mask a couple times; however, i don't think that this means that there is a problem with either the mask or the fencers involved. The guy I was fencing has fenced for 10 years and I am not too far behind him in experience. Sometimes weird angles lead to painful hits but its probably not worth worrying too much about.

[D'Artagnan1673]

Attached is a shot of me in a lunge as I would do it in a bout. The angle may seem a bit odd because my wife was sitting in a chair holding one of the kids at the time. The angle of the shot makes me look like I am standing straight up, but my knees are actually bent. It looks to me as if folding the bib into the mesh has helped adjust the bib to where it protects my throat better.

What do you all think?

[D'Artagnan1673]

Originally Posted by D'Artagnan1673

Attached is a shot of me in a lunge as I would do it in a bout. The angle may seem a bit odd because my wife was sitting in a chair holding one of the kids at the time. The angle of the shot makes me look like I am standing straight up, but my knees are actually bent. It looks to me as if folding the bib into the mesh has helped adjust the bib to where it protects my throat better.

What do you all think?

Err... I did some more lunges and my wife caught me exposing my throat when I lunge deep. It turns out that I do raise my head quite a bit when I perform a deep lunge. I tried lunging deep with my head down, and I found it took to recover longer and required more effort. She suggested I raise my head after lunging, and that appeared to have a positive effect upon my ability to recover. Of course, one is still likely to take a good shot recovering from a lunge as well. I guess I'll need to work on my footwork to gain more strength.

[MdA]

You are stretching your rear arm out behind you in a classical style. I think this is forcing your head back a little....probably just the way you are built.

I suggest a modern lunge position with the unarmed hand in a more relaxed position. You will have less tension across your shoulders and should be able to keep your head down.

Old habits are hard to break and you will probably revert back to your old lunge position for awhile...especially when lunging deep or long in order to make an important touch.

That is why I recommend you get a new mask with a bigger bib while you work on the new lunge position. And you will have to recreate that nifty French paint job.

It doesn't hurt to get a new mask. 6 years is more than enough for a mask. My kids sweat so profusely that they go thru an FIE mask in about one year. They just chew up the fabric inside and the mesh rusts...better safe then sorry.

[fatfencer]

Originally Posted by Peach

Although it's commendable to focus on ways an individual fencer can prevent this kind of injury, I'd also suggest we ought to consider the likelihood that the bib of any mask is not an ideal design. I am often hit in the throat underneath the bib (I'm a sabre fencer), and I don't keep my chin high. I was once knocked to the strip by an opponent's lunge to the throat, and couldn't get my voice to work for a minute or so. The "lip" on the jacket generally catches it, but it's one of my major worries.

I consider it a serious safety issue in fencing and I don't know why more people aren't hit there. A fellow veteran was hit in the neck so seriously she required emergency care--was that last year's Summer Nationals?

Yeah, actually I was there. I saw her lying holding her neck. Actually it was Atlanta SN's I believe. I wasnt in Miami unless of course you mean something that dangerous happened AGAIN at SN's.

Anyways, They need to make Saber blades safer. Actually if they are going to allow point strikes in sabre they should just use foil blades as they bend better and dont break as easy.

When I saw her on the ground I thought I was going to lose it...hope she's ok now. Years of dealing with man-hating feminists in college and grad school have pretty much pumped out all of the chivalry from my veins but still I can't help but think I reacted with more pathos for her than I would if it were a guy.

As for the OP, one thing that I do to keep my mask bib down since I have an Allstar mask is to fold the bib inside the mask to keep it from curling up as it is want to do. My bib is well trained now.

Safety is no joke, and saber blades break so damn easy that I wish they'd do something about it.

Fatfencer

[D'Artagnan1673]

Originally Posted by MdA

That is why I recommend you get a new mask with a bigger bib while you work on the new lunge position. And you will have to recreate that nifty French paint job.

It doesn't hurt to get a new mask. 6 years is more than enough for a mask. My kids sweat so profusely that they go thru an FIE mask in about one year. They just chew up the fabric inside and the mesh rusts...better safe then sorry.

I appreciate your concern for my safety. I've told my wife that I won't replace my mask unless it fails the punch test next week. It's an older mask, but bear in mind I had to put fencing down in June 2005 and just picked it up last week! She's been in a climate controlled room in my house all that time.

Also, I really don't want to recreate my medieval paint job! It was fun, but I won't have that type of free time until the holidays (I painted it while I was compelled to be around in-laws from out of town).

I see Blue-Gauntlet has about the best price on another Uhlmann FIE, but their price on the comfort plus model is on parr with The Fencing Posts'.