ESPN is stupid.

[App13]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...t=handEye#grid

That's ridiculous.

Hand eye coordination a 7: That's too high, I fence without my glasses.

Endurance a 4:I'd like to see them fence for 5 hours in an small 80 degree room wearing a full saber outfit

Strength and power a 3 and 4 Our leg muscles are the probably strongest of ANY sport, except maybe rowing.

Aggility a 6: Not even gonna get into that...

Nerve a 5:Try having a 6'7" man sprinting at you with a sword, while screaming.

Analytic Aptitude a 7: Continuous calculations, I don't know, I might give them that one.

Oh and if you disagree, please share your opinions!

[SJCFU#2]

Originally Posted by App13

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...t=handEye#grid

That's ridiculous.

Oh and if you disagree, please share your opinions!

I think that most people here concluded that the author didn't know what he was talking about when that article was discussed in this thread and again in this thread.

Note that both of these threads are several years old.

[mrbiggs]

Although to be fair, those threads are old enough that literally my first post on this forum was in one of them. It's not unreasonable to have another discussion at this point.

However, there have actually been several more iterations of this thread believe it or not.

The difficulty of fencing according to ESPN

Fencing - #24 on ESPN.com's list of most difficult sports

[erooMynohtnA]

Originally Posted by App13

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...t=handEye#grid

That's ridiculous.

Hand eye coordination a 7: That's too high, I fence without my glasses.

Hand eye coordination and distance vision are not the same thing.

Endurance a 4:I'd like to see them fence for 5 hours in an small 80 degree room wearing a full saber outfit

I would bet on almost any sport to beat fencing in average cardiovascular fitness of top competitors. I think we're remarkably overrated.

Strength and power a 3 and 4 Our leg muscles are the probably strongest of ANY sport, except maybe rowing.

Probably they did tests.

Aggility a 6: Not even gonna get into that...

We are known for our high-flying acrobatics

Nerve a 5:Try having a 6'7" man sprinting at you with a sword, while screaming.

Because he poses a minute threat of a small bruise?

Analytic Aptitude a 7: Continuous calculations, I don't know, I might give them that one.

I think they're a little low on that one, comparing GPAs of NCAA athletes by sport.

Oh and if you disagree, please share your opinions!

Ok

[ZapBranigan]

Hand eye coordination a 7: That's too high, I fence without my glasses.

Ah yes. To coordinate hand, eye, and glass, the "Whore's Combo."

Endurance a 4:I'd like to see them fence for 5 hours in an small 80 degree room wearing a full saber outfit

I would like to see YOU, in a velour outfit, fence off waves of ESPN journalism majors. "The Worldwide Leader in Sports"? Who are they to imply they know sports? Precisely: nobody.

Strength and power a 3 and 4 Our leg muscles are the probably strongest of ANY sport, except maybe rowing.

Premise: concurred with! Why, who else would have leg muscles stronger than fencers, apart from, perhaps, high-jumpers, hurdlers, long-jumpers, pole-vaulters, marathon runners, sprinters, surgers, wakeboarders, climbers, mountaineers, bicycle racers, track cyclists, sumo wrestlers, regular wrestlers, soccer players, footballers, rugby players, all manner of gymnast, hockey players, kite fighters, kayakers, squirt boaters, rafters, BASE jumpers, sky divers, badminton players, tennis players, squash players, racquetball players, cross-country runners, sprinters, land windsurfers, skiers, swimmers, divers, hikers, discus throwers, javelin throwers, shot putters, cyclists, orienteerists, lumberjacks, racecar drivers, ice skaters (freestyle, figure, tour, and speed), snowboarders, bodybuilders, powerlifters, baseball players, lacrosse players, basketball players, volleyball players, boxers, and real sword-fighters and soldiers? Precisely! NOBODY.

Aggility a 6: Not even gonna get into that...

Another carefully picked battle! Fencing requires such agility that you are "not even gonna get into" the matter! What does, for example, figure skating (a sport ruled to require more agility than fencing, involving the performance of artful spins, jumps, twirls, and other fruity dance moves) have on fencing agility-wise? PRECISELY: nothing.

Nerve a 5:Try having a 6'7" man sprinting at you with a sword, while screaming.

Again I must agree, Kif! I mean, App13! At the heart of fencing is NERVE. I challenge any boxer, diver, surfer, auto racer, rodeo-er, equestrian, or bobsledder to even try to muster the courage to attempt to poke another individual on a length of padded gymnasium floor, while wearing a padded suit and while both are wielding round-tipped weapons! Even if the 6'7" man sprinting at you with a sword would be charged with battery for just barely punching you, and even if his "sword" is a length of metal physically incapable of puncturing skin, it's still pretty scary! What other so-called sportsman could dare try this feat? (see above!)

Analytic Aptitude a 7: Continuous calculations, I don't know, I might give them that one.

Go get them, tiger! Even though Fencing was ranked as .62 points away from the most analytical of sports, this is another front upon which full-scale war must be waged! MILLIONS FOR DEFENSE, NOT ONE CENT FOR TRIBUTE!

Oh and if you disagree, please share your opinions!

Good sir, the only point with which I must disagree. Certainly you must understand that I, a spaceman, an astronaut, a rider of the cosmic gales transcendent, have greater wisdom in this field, wisdom I shall now share! Never invite attack from your foes; if you do, you risk being wrong! And that violates rule number ONE of spacedom: "You are never wrong. FOR THE EMPEROR!" (sic)

Please, please continue your valiant efforts in teaching these "sports" neophytes the true trial, the true rigor, the genuine agony and life-risking daring that we - fellow fencers all - must live with every day!

[Grasshopper]

No more space booze for you!

[Grimaldi]

Can't go to the page (work filter) but I assume it's on a scale of 1-10? Let's see...

Originally Posted by App13

Hand eye coordination a 7: That's too high, I fence without my glasses.

I'd say 7-8 is appropriate. What other sports are more precise as far as hand-eye coordination are concerned? Catching and throwing are much simpler, as the target is usually larger. Trying to manipulate a tip 40"ish away against an evading/blocking opponent is pretty trying. Some sports like gymnastics by require greater overall coordination, but I would put that in the "agility" catagory. Maybe marksmanship would beat fencing, for the sheer fact that you're dealing with the absolute extreme of precision.

Originally Posted by App13

Endurance a 4:I'd like to see them fence for 5 hours in an small 80 degree room wearing a full saber outfit

This is tough, because there are many variables involved. One individual bout, whether to 5 touches of 15, is not incredibly taxing (compared to other sports). How many bouts you compete in during the day, and at what frequency, can make a huge difference. Overall, though, I think this is appropriate, as it's about average in the rating spectrum. More demanding than many sports (discus, ping-pong, short sprints) but less than others (marathon, long-distance swimming, boxing, wrestling).

Originally Posted by App13

Strength and power a 3 and 4 Our leg muscles are the probably strongest of ANY sport, except maybe rowing.

Another tough one. While overall, strength isn't what you'd think of as a prerequisite for fencing, it is important, and you're right that fencers are very specialized with leg muscles. I think the fact that the muscle strength is fairly isolated would lead me to keep strength overall fairly low (probably a 4), but I would bump the power up to 6ish and explain the surprising (to the general public) power needed by elite fencers to lunge and recover quickly.

Originally Posted by App13

Aggility a 6: Not even gonna get into that...

Probably a little low on a scale of 1-10. 7-8 would be appropriate, I think, with gymnastics, diving beating it out.

Originally Posted by App13

Nerve a 5:Try having a 6'7" man sprinting at you with a sword, while screaming.

This whole catagory seems silly, as nerve can mean some many different things for different sports. Any athlete, at any level, is going to be under a lot of stress to perform well, and elite athlete are at an even higher level.

If bodily harm is your chief measure, I suppose fencing would be up there, as it is a contact sport of sorts. While your description certainly sounds menacing, I've never really felt "threatened" on the strip. Safety gear is top notch, and the worst I'll get is a stinging welt or bruise.

Otherwise, I'd say solo events require more "nerve" than team events, contact more than non, and longer, more point scoring events events more than once or twice events (fencing/archery more than shotput/racing). Risk of injury raises the nerve level, too. With that in mind, fencing should probably be pretty high.

Originally Posted by App13

Analytic Aptitude a 7: Continuous calculations, I don't know, I might give them that one.

Seems about right. Lots of strategy involved, depending on your opponent and all, as opposed to something like swimming where you just do your best.

[Nolano]

Speed is one of the ones I take issue with.

What was that one thing? The fastest object in any sport is the marksman's bullet, followed by the point of the fencer's weapon?

[KD5MDK]

But the tip is on the end of a long blade. The fencer themself is not as fast.

[nylebuss]

Originally Posted by App13

Endurance a 4:I'd like to see them fence for 5 hours in an small 80 degree room wearing a full saber outfit

Really??
Say you're in a 32 person tournament and you have 3 pools of 6 and 2 of 7. I'll give you the pool of 7 thats at most 21 minutes of Fencing in what will probably amount to 1.5 to 2 hours and then if you make it to the final and all your bouts last the maximum amount of time that is 45 minutes of action. So for that 5 hours you're in a small 80 degree room wearing a full saber outfit your fencing for a grand total of 66 minutes. So 66 minutes out of 300 minutes or 22% of the time. That sounds grueling...

[bunbury]

Originally Posted by Grimaldi

I'd say 7-8 is appropriate. What other sports are more precise as far as hand-eye coordination are concerned? Catching and throwing are much simpler, as the target is usually larger. Trying to manipulate a tip 40"ish away against an evading/blocking opponent is pretty trying. Some sports like gymnastics by require greater overall coordination, but I would put that in the "agility" catagory. Maybe marksmanship would beat fencing, for the sheer fact that you're dealing with the absolute extreme of precision.

Try hitting a 9inch ball at 100+ mph with a bat, we'll see how well you do.

[tchwojko]

Acidity: 4 vs. 7
Sweetness: 7 vs. 7
Redness: 0-10 depending on variety vs. 7
Compatibility with fish: 2 vs. 8
Use in baked goods: 8 vs. 3

Summary 21-31 vs. 32

There we have it. Conclusive evidence that oranges are better than apples.

[Welted 24/7]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

But the tip is on the end of a long blade. The fencer themself is not as fast.

Maybe not, but we still have to deal with the second-fastest object in sports coming at us.

Overall, I'd say it's mostly accurate...maybe an extra point up on agility, but other than that, I can't take too much issue with it.

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Originally Posted by bunbury

Try hitting a 9inch ball at 100+ mph with a bat, we'll see how well you do.

Absolutely...that's the hardest thing to do in sports.

However, now imagine if that ball has the option of going 93 and cutting at the end, or 83 and curving or 65 and knuckling etc.

Nothing is harder, hand eye coordination wise, than hitting a baseball.

[Grimaldi]

Originally Posted by bunbury

Try hitting a 9inch ball at 100+ mph with a bat, we'll see how well you do.

I never said it was easier than fencing. As I said originally, I can't visit the actual site, so was operating under the assumption that it's on a 1-10 scale. In that regard, 7-8 seems appropriate, as fencing isn't the pinnacle of hand-eye coordination, but it's getting close. Marksmanship first sprang to find because of the incredible precision needed at the top levels of competition, but I'll agree that batting in elite-level baseball is very difficult...more demanding in hand-eye coordination than fencing.

[seak]

Originally Posted by KShan5[PrFC]

Absolutely...that's the hardest thing to do in sports.

However, now imagine if that ball has the option of going 93 and cutting at the end, or 83 and curving or 65 and knuckling etc.

Nothing is harder, hand eye coordination wise, than hitting a baseball.

Now imagine that said ball is being thrown at 70mph from 15ft closer in, and has the option to rise or dip, plus cut...and is being released from a weird angle

nothing is harder then hitting a baseball, except perhaps for hitting a softball

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Originally Posted by seak

Now imagine that said ball is being thrown at 70mph from 15ft closer in, and has the option to rise or dip, plus cut...and is being released from a weird angle

nothing is harder then hitting a baseball, except perhaps for hitting a softball

Maybe...but softball is painfully boring to watch.

[ViewtifulMisho]

Originally Posted by nylebuss

Really??
Say you're in a 32 person tournament and you have 3 pools of 6 and 2 of 7. I'll give you the pool of 7 thats at most 21 minutes of Fencing in what will probably amount to 1.5 to 2 hours and then if you make it to the final and all your bouts last the maximum amount of time that is 45 minutes of action. So for that 5 hours you're in a small 80 degree room wearing a full saber outfit your fencing for a grand total of 66 minutes. So 66 minutes out of 300 minutes or 22% of the time. That sounds grueling...

Holy crap, that's generous. A sabre pool bout includes something like an average of 45 seconds of fencing. For 6 bouts, that's about 4 minutes, 30 seconds of activity. On the high side, it's probably 6 minutes.