Screaming: Jesus, Mariel. Really?

[Mr Epee]

Screaming...

You were doing so well....

well, right up to the point where you explained to a major media outlet that fencers scream to influence the director... and that this is a winning strategy.

Is the USFA so poor that they can't provide athletes with talking points?

[mrbiggs]

Was she supposed to flat out lie? They asked whether or not fencers yell to influence the judges and she responded that that happens sometimes. That's the truth.

It's no different from the players flying onto the floor you see in basketball or soccer in the hopes of drawing a penalty.

[TooLoftheDeviL]

I think it would have been a good answer directed at the fencing community. And it's true, for sure. But it's not exactly a positive looking thing if you knew nothing about fencing.

[the highlander]

I do not know Mariel, but her answer is not so bad and this thread should not turn into Mariel-bashing, it would not do anybody any good.

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by the highlander

[H]er answer is not so bad

Well, it's pretty bad if you are a fan of

A) Objective Sport

B) Impartial Quality Officiating


Those things are pretty important to me.

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Well, it's pretty bad if you are a fan of

A) Objective Sport

B) Impartial Quality Officiating


Those things are pretty important to me.

Actions that are clearly outside the spirit of the rules, especially those to influence or trick the referees, are common in almost all high level sports. I posted two examples of them above, and I'm sure you could come up with some examples for almost any sport.

If anything, i think it lends credibility to fencing as a sport where athletes are doing whatever they can to win rather than wasps in white suits talking about who has more honor.

And again, would you have her lie? They asked her very specifically.

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

Was she supposed to flat out lie? They asked whether or not fencers yell to influence the judges and she responded that that happens sometimes. That's the truth.

Public Relations is an art.

It's no different from the players flying onto the floor you see in basketball or soccer in the hopes of drawing a penalty.

Glad you brought this up...

"Diving" in soccer is considered unsportsmanlike behavior and is supposed to result in a yellow card.

Starting next year the NBA will be reviewing game films and handing out fines to players who get caught "flopping".

If anything, i think it lends credibility to fencing as a sport where athletes are doing whatever they can to win rather than wasps in white suits talking about who has more honor.

your worldview is painfully flawed... according to your logic fencing was a more credible sport during the bout swapping era... fencing also became a more credible sport as a result of the Cheris Scandal reported in SI... the French Steroid Scandal also didn't help things much...

[jkdjeff]

So, how would you have had her answer the question?

[Peach]

Huh--I thought it was a candid, knowledgeable, funny, apt, and well-balanced reply. Depends on your perspective, I expect.

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Public Relations is an art.

That doesn't mean anything.

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Glad you brought this up...

"Diving" in soccer is considered unsportsmanlike behavior and is supposed to result in a yellow card.

Starting next year the NBA will be reviewing game films and handing out fines to players who get caught "flopping".

IIRC you watch soccer (I could be wrong), so you know exactly how much players actually get carded.

And that's fine for the NBA, but it doesn't change the reality of what's going on right now.

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

your worldview is painfully flawed... according to your logic fencing was a more credible sport during the bout swapping era... fencing also became a more credible sport as a result of the Cheris Scandal reported in SI... the French Steroid Scandal also didn't help things much...

I'm just saying that the public's perception of our sport is that it's not a sport at all, and more two people standing still and poking each other. You're worried about details when the public perception isn't even close to reality.

[Dev]

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

Was she supposed to flat out lie? They asked whether or not fencers yell to influence the judges and she responded that that happens sometimes. That's the truth.

It's no different from the players flying onto the floor you see in basketball or soccer in the hopes of drawing a penalty.

True, but you don't see many basketball or soccer players copping to flopping in public-record interviews.

Granted, if they did, they'd probably just be personally sneered at and it wouldn't be viewed as an indictment on the game (we make fun of it enough as it is). On the other hand, fencing as a whole is keenly aware of its (lack of) standing in public perception, especially considering that it is supposedly on the IOC's elimination radar.

Either that, or we as fencers are more acutely aware of public perception, as we have to explain several times a week where all of our free time goes, and also answer stupid questions about Zorro.

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by Peach

Huh--I thought it was a candid, knowledgeable, funny, apt, and well-balanced reply. Depends on your perspective, I expect.

You have a reputation for being sensitive to issues regarding spelling, punctuation, and grammar... it's your field of specialization. As an author, and an English teacher, I expect you read with a different eye than most folks.

Following that logic... I'm probably reading this Q+A with a different eye than most folks.... from a sport PR perspective it's pretty egregious.

If this were the NBA, she would be expecting a call from David Sterns office.

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by Dev

fencing as a whole is keenly aware of its (lack of) standing in public perception, especially considering that it is supposedly on the IOC's elimination radar.

Specifically, the IOC has stated one of the problems with fencing is that foil and saber lack objectivity. (Sorry I can't find that report at the moment)

You'd think that someone would have taken the time to mention this to the sport's reigning Olympic champion.

[jkdjeff]

I just get the feeling that if she'd replied "oh, it's all about the pure emotion of the bout and doesn't affect anything!" that there'd be an outraged thread about it here today, too; "who are you trying to fool? we all know you're screaming to try to get the touch! You're ruining fencing's credibility!"

In a no-win situation, I thought she gave a candid and amusing answer, and fencing has a long way to go with visibility in general before starting to worry about whether people think that there's problems with shouting possibly influencing refereeing.

[fencerX]

Originally Posted by jkdjeff

I just get the feeling that if she'd replied "oh, it's all about the pure emotion of the bout and doesn't affect anything!" that there'd be an outraged thread about it here today, too; "who are you trying to fool? we all know you're screaming to try to get the touch! You're ruining fencing's credibility!"

In a no-win situation, I thought she gave a candid and amusing answer, and fencing has a long way to go with visibility in general before starting to worry about whether people think that there's problems with shouting possibly influencing refereeing.

Oh good grief.

How hard would it have been to explain that screaming is often very emotional, and yes, some might use it as an attempt to influence the referee, but also mention that like in other sports, it doesn't work on the best refs? And btw there's video replay available, etc.

[jkdjeff]

Aside from the caveat about it not working on the best refs (which maybe she should've included but I have no idea if that's actually true, not fencing at the level that she's fencing at), I don't see your proposed answer as much different than what she actually said.

[BrianH]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Starting next year the NBA will be reviewing game films and handing out fines to players who get caught "flopping".

Unless it is one of their star players, or the referee is on the take.

[tbryan]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Specifically, the IOC has stated one of the problems with fencing is that foil and saber lack objectivity. (Sorry I can't find that report at the moment)

I don't know about the original report, but here's the an thread on some related news reports: IOC has problems with several sports, boxing funds withheld, fencing mentioned.

[tchwojko]

Originally Posted by BrianH

Unless it is one of their star players, or the referee is on the take.

The star players don't need to flop, they'll get the call regardless.

[AndrewH]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Specifically, the IOC has stated one of the problems with fencing is that foil and saber lack objectivity.

At least we don't base our entire scoring system on a panel of judges holding up cards with numbers on them.