Valentina Vezzali makes new history with 60th WC gold

[gladius]

60th WC gold medal for Valentina Vezzali

From FIS web site

http://www.federscherma.it/news.asp?i=59964&s=7

http://www.federscherma.it/news.asp?i=59992&s=7

Valentina Vezzali becomes a[n even greater] legend. The Olympic champion with her victory at the Grand Prix "Nancy Uranga" in Havana, Cuba, won her 60th victory in a World Cup event. The foilist from Jesi, Italy, beat the American Erinn Smart (14-3), the Russians Viktoria Nikichina (15-10) and Olga Lobyntseva (15-4), the French Adeline Wuilleme (15-9), the Polish Malgorzata Wojtkowiak (15-8), and in the final for gold the other Russian Svetlana Boiko (4-1). This is Valentina's fourth victory this season after Salzburg, Danzig, and Shanghai. Quite a milestone, one saluted by the FIS President, Giorgio Scarso who was present at the event. "On behalf of Italian fencing I would like to applaud this greatest campionissima for all the joys and emotions she's given us. I'm proud to salute this nth triumph."

The performance of the other members of the Italian team was quite opaque. Benedetta Durando eliminated for top eight (9-15) by the Polish Magda Mroczkiewicz, finished 12th; for top sixteen, out Margherita Granbassi (19th, 11-15 against the Hungarian Edina Knapek) and Ilaria Salvatori (20th, 5-15 against the Polish Malgorzata Wojtkowiak). Altogether not very satisfactory, other than the gold, for the CT Andrea Magro, "Special congratulations to Valentina who made history today in this sport. On the other hand I'm not at all satisfied by the performance of the other girls who fenced below their standard. Of course, it can always happen but today they made too many mistakes."

In the team competition the following day the Italian WF team with Valentina Vezzali, Margherita Granbassi, Ilaria Salvatori, and Benedetta Durando (without Giovanna Trillini victim of an allergy attack) had to accept second place losing 33 - 43 in the final against Poland's second victory of 2008 after Jéju. Italy had previously beaten Chile, China (27-17), and Russia (29-16).

This was the fifth team event of this season for the Italian WF team and it was their second best result after the victory in Tokyo in May. In their matches against Poland they tied (1-1) with Poland taking their revenge this time for the loss at the Grand Prix in Danzig. A bitter comment by CT Andrea Magro after the competition, "We fenced well, but for the final when we got somehow lost. We paid for a hesitant start without being able to reach a certain continuity in the action. A real pity."

The next event for WF is for Saturday 21 and Sunday 22 in Las Vegas, the last competition before the Italian championships (June 28-29) in Jesi, and the European championships in Kiev, (July 4-11).

[Don Badowski]

the other Russian Svetlana Boiko (4-1)

4 to 1, in foil? 9 minutes of fencing for 5 touches? With all due respect for Ms. Valentina, the audience must have been asleep for the award ceremony.

[Soberin]

Does that mean that she will be seeded highly at the Olympics?

[KShan5[PrFC]]

It seems like right now she will be seeded either first or second.

[epeemike81]

Wow... just... wow.

Is this 60 total (junior and senior) or 60 Senior golds?

Incredibly impressive either way...

-m

[the doc]

Almost certainly 60 senior golds, given the only reason she hasn't been World no. 1 for 5 years in a row was that she had a baby. She still won the World Championships a couple of months after giving birth that year, so she totally dominates.

On a side note, there were lots of fights in the women's GP in Cuba that did not go to 15. Lots of these fights were not even 1 hit finishes, but for instance 14-2, 12-5, 11-7, 13-5. It does seem that the women have not got to grips with the new timings at all.

Another very interesting point to note is that the Italian women's foilists are indiviually ranked 1,2 and 4, yet are ranked only 4th as a team (and a long way behind 1st place). It demonstrates well that there is a lot more to team fencing than just getting 3 good fencers together.

[sheck]

[quote=Another very interesting point to note is that the Italian women's foilists are indiviually ranked 1,2 and 4, yet are ranked only 4th as a team (and a long way behind 1st place). It demonstrates well that there is a lot more to team fencing than just getting 3 good fencers together.[/QUOTE]

Still I see them winning team gold at the Olympics.

[the doc]

Actually, I took a look back through their record for the past few years and it is pretty dreadful considering. They haven't won any of the past 3 world championships, haven't been ranked season end number 1 in that time and have only won one of seven events this season.

I wouldn't be putting any money on them in a hurry.

[Soberin]

Originally Posted by the doc

Actually, I took a look back through their record for the past few years and it is pretty dreadful considering. They haven't won any of the past 3 world championships, haven't been ranked season end number 1 in that time and have only won one of seven events this season.

I wouldn't be putting any money on them in a hurry.

Do any of the legal gambling bookies in England take bets on the Olympics?

[epeemike81]

Originally Posted by Soberin

Do any of the legal gambling bookies in England take bets on the Olympics?

They did in 04...

-m

[Grasshopper]

I saw her fence and take a lesson at the WC in Tokyo this year. Hardest working woman there - both on and off the piste. Very small and thin - probably about 10% body fat. I had never seen her without full gear on so was shocked! She spent her non-piste time doing footwork and taking lessons. Lesson with Magro was about 30 minutes of which about 20 minutes was just talking (healthy arguing?) about technique. (I wish I could understand Italian) Footwork in the lesson was extremely precise and seemed to be the focus of the lesson itself. I bet she wins in Beijing.

[Grasshopper]

Originally Posted by the doc

Another very interesting point to note is that the Italian women's foilists are indiviually ranked 1,2 and 4, yet are ranked only 4th as a team (and a long way behind 1st place). It demonstrates well that there is a lot more to team fencing than just getting 3 good fencers together.

Agreed. At the Gran Prix in Tokyo this year, during the 1st place match with Hungary, although Italy was way ahead, they were still fencing like it was a series of an individual matches rather than a 45 hit team match. There are some big egos on that team and it hurts them during team events where sometimes it is better to hold a lead rather than outscore each and every opponent.

[Lemonaide]

She certainly is the centuries icon! Viva Italy!

[epeemike81]

To quote Vezzali immediately after the awards ceremony in Las Vegas, "Sixty one."

-m

[gladius]

Originally Posted by epeemike81

Wow... just... wow.

Is this 60 total (junior and senior) or 60 Senior golds?

Incredibly impressive either way...

-m

According to the press office of the FIS she has 60, now 61 gold medals in world cup competitions which are all senior golds!

[telkanuru]

I don't even know anyone who has 60 gold medals from local opens....

That's a pretty amazing figure.

[KD5MDK]

I would bet Ray Sexton has accumulated 60 gold medals in various things by now, since he does pretty well in Veterans as a 3 weapon fencer and decently locally as well.


EDIT: Ok, a quick search on FRED produces 25 first place results in the last few years that FRED's been around. He's been fencing for nearly 20 years.
I'm still collecting NAC/SN results.

[KD5MDK]

After looking through the available online results of US national tournaments, Ray has taken Gold in 11 of events since 2002-2003. I only looked at Veteran events, so if he ever won Div IA, Div II, etc it would be overlooked. Also, from 2004 and earlier the Vet NACs were combined, not age separated. I don't know if they awarded medals to top 60+ finisher in those, so he might have picked up more there.
I'm willing to bet he's won 14 events that were either National before 2002 or locally but aren't on FRED.

Still an amazing achievement for VV at the World level. How many WF fencers are just waiting for her to retire (in 10 years?) so they stand a chance?

[zéphirin]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

After looking through the available online results of US national tournaments, Ray has taken Gold in 11 of events since 2002-2003. I only looked at Veteran events, so if he ever won Div IA, Div II, etc it would be overlooked. Also, from 2004 and earlier the Vet NACs were combined, not age separated. I don't know if they awarded medals to top 60+ finisher in those, so he might have picked up more there.
I'm willing to bet he's won 14 events that were either National before 2002 or locally but aren't on FRED.

Still an amazing achievement for VV at the World level. How many WF fencers are just waiting for her to retire (in 10 years?) so they stand a chance?

I wonder how much idle time you have to (a) post so often (didn't they teach you that quantity is not a synonym for quality) and (b) to conduct such an "insightful" search about a trivial issue.

I would not have intervened in this thread but for your inane comparison between Vezzali and ... Sexton. I've seen Sexton fence at NACs and I admire his dedication and sportsmanship but I bet he isn't pleased either by your trying to put him in Vezzali's league and her results.

If numbers is what you are after, my still prepubescent niece got a whole bunch of gold medals ("ribbons" they call them), sixty or even more, in swim team competitions but I would not attempt to put her in the same class as Vezzali...

A more apt comparison could be between Vezzali and Rebecca Ward in gold medals for this season (there is a certain age difference and fencing career between the two). They both are 5-all so far for gold. To be more precise, Vezzali competed in 10 senior international events this year, 5 gold, 2 bronze, 3 5th place. Becca competed in 7 senior international events this year, 5 gold and 2 5th place. You decide which one did better.

A champion with the longevity and dominance like Vezzali has probably no equal today. In the history of fencing the only one that comes to mind is another Italian (did anyone establish a correlation between spaghetti and fencing???), Edoardo Mangiarotti, whose Olympic and world championships records remain unbeaten: in 5 Olympics between 1936 and 1960 (he would have been in more but for an event called WW II) he earned 13 Olympic medals, 6 of them gold; in 9 world championships he earned 27 medals, 13 of them gold. And yes, he is 89, slightly older than Ray, and he also fenced epee and foil (almost like Ray who fences all three).

But if we consider the present, this current season, I believe that Becca Ward is way up there with the best of the best, possibly even ahead of all of them.

Now back to counting marbles... :-/

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by zéphirin

I wonder how much idle time you have to (a) post so often (didn't they teach you that quantity is not a synonym for quality) and (b) to conduct such an "insightful" search about a trivial issue.

I would not have intervened in this thread but for your inane comparison between Vezzali and ... Sexton. I've seen Sexton fence at NACs and I admire his dedication and sportsmanship but I bet he isn't pleased either by your trying to put him in Vezzali's league and her results.

Specifically, telkanuru said he didn't know anybody who'd won 60 gold medals in local competition. I didn't know if anybody had, but decided to check out the most likely candidate I could think of.

A more apt comparison could be between Vezzali and Rebecca Ward in gold medals for this season (there is a certain age difference and fencing career between the two). They both are 5-all so far for gold. To be more precise, Vezzali competed in 10 senior international events this year, 5 gold, 2 bronze, 3 5th place. Becca competed in 7 senior international events this year, 5 gold and 2 5th place. You decide which one did better.

Well, Vezzalli I'd say. Depends on the value of Bronze I guess. Of course, I don't expect Becca to maintain the dominance that Vezzalli has displayed. I think she'll compete for the next 8 or 12 years and then move on. It's just not possible to make a living on fencing here, as I doubt she'll join the WCAP. But it looks to me like a lot of countries should probably just cancel their women's foil programs for the next 20 years (until Vezzalli switches to fencing Veterans) and start them back up again a bit before she retires.