Times for Events at Nationals???

[hello?]

The last day of late registration was May 30th. Any word when they'll get around to figuring out day schedules?

[teacup]

Actually, it has been three weeks, since the website states they will be posted after May 16.

From USFA Website:
"2008 Summer Nationals Schedule
Check-in Times will be posted after the first registration deadline"

http://www.usfencing.org/usfa/content/view/2674/99/

(THS has a two week cancellation policy for hotel reservations.)

[foilfanatic]

This is completely unacceptable. We have to make plans for travel, and with prices the way they are for flights, cars, etc. we should be able to know start times at least 60 days before a major event. This affects everyone in our club traveling to nationals and I'm sick of the USFA failing to inform us with adequate time to plan travel. There's just no excuse for it ... I'm just livid.

[teacup]

Does anyone have any inside knowledge to explain why the tournament committee takes over three weeks from regular close of check in and over a week from late close of check in to send the national office close of check in times for posting?

[seak]

Originally Posted by foilfanatic

This is completely unacceptable. We have to make plans for travel, ...more ranting

I mean I understand that start time would be nice, but really? You know what days the events are, you want to fly in the day before and out the day after pretty much as a general rule.

With the current state of air travel I wouldn't fly in the morning of no matter my start time, and given the fun stuff that con sometimes happen, I wouldn't fly out the day of pretty much regardless either.

[teacup]

Originally Posted by seak

I mean I understand that start time would be nice, but really? You know what days the events are, you want to fly in the day before and out the day after pretty much as a general rule.

With the current state of air travel I wouldn't fly in the morning of no matter my start time, and given the fun stuff that con sometimes happen, I wouldn't fly out the day of pretty much regardless either.

Actually because of the increasing cost of air fare, it is even more of a reason to know close of check in times. Not everyone has the luxury of being able to fly out the next day. An extra hotel night, extra lost work day, it all adds up. Most of the refs and other personnel fly home the last day.

Take for example the Y10 ME on Sunday. There are 44 competitors. If the event has an 8:00 AM close of check in there is a pretty good chance that someone could make an 8:00 PM flight that night. If close of check in is 2:00 they might decide to stay. Small sabre events should be able to finish early enough to catch a flight but a late check in changes things.

If check in is early, the fencer may choose to take an earlier flight, conversely if the close of check in is late, it may be more worthwhile to arrive later in the evening. Price fares fluctuate depending on departure and arrival times.

If the fencer has an additional event at the end, it may make someone decide it isn't worth it economically to attend that one added event. People do make these kinds of decisions.

Besides, why shouldn't this information be available now?

[seak]

Oh I can't think of a good reason it's not up, it clearly should be. I just think foilfanatic was overreacting.

If you're in a small saber event it'll probably be over in time to catch an 8pm flight even with a 2pm close of check-in. If you're in a large event and planning to do well I wouldn't necessarily take an 8pm flight home that day no matter when close of check in was. If you're event is the last day, and you know all the refs are flying out, you can probably fly out too. Also a lot of airlines are mildly flexible about changing days, especially to put you on an earlier flight, if you miss etc (especially southwest one more reason to fly them). If you fence the next day taking the cheapest flight almost always makes the most sense, especially if you have a friend/parent who can stand in the armorers line for you, getting there super early that morning though will still work. And if you have on last event, when it's check-in time is probably isn't going to affect whether you're going to stay given that additional hotel time is still probably greater then the difference in airfare.

I can totally understand being miffed, it's nice to be able to plan. But furious? and basing your travel on event close of check-in strikes me as a bit much (and slightly silly)

[Peach]

It doesn't matter how much you plan, I swear.

The first time my daughter flew sort-of unchaperoned, she was going to California for J.O.'s (I think). We put her and her teammate on the plane and left. The plane sat on the tarmac for hours, and when it finally arrived in Washington their connecting flight had long been gone, so the airline put them up in a hotel overnight. "We talked to the nicest sailor in an elevator," she told me. They took the first plane out and arrived at the venue barely in time to check in and fence.

The trip back was worse.

I'm flying in for Summer Nationals the day before my first event and flying out the day after the second one. I don't care what time the events are.

[lovesabre]

Originally Posted by Peach

It doesn't matter how much you plan, I swear.

The first time my daughter flew sort-of unchaperoned, she was going to California for J.O.'s (I think). We put her and her teammate on the plane and left. The plane sat on the tarmac for hours, and when it finally arrived in Washington their connecting flight had long been gone, so the airline put them up in a hotel overnight. "We talked to the nicest sailor in an elevator," she told me. They took the first plane out and arrived at the venue barely in time to check in and fence.

The trip back was worse.

I'm flying in for Summer Nationals the day before my first event and flying out the day after the second one. I don't care what time the events are.

Yes, I think this is really the best way. Why chance it if you are taveling so far for such a big event?

[teacup]

Originally Posted by seak

I can totally understand being miffed, it's nice to be able to plan. But furious? and basing your travel on event close of check-in strikes me as a bit much (and slightly silly)

Members want to make plans with their lives and get the best possible prices on their travel plans. Besides air, some are waiting to finalize rooms with THS or organize their coaches travel plans. Not only fencing but plans for summer camps, classes, work or vacation days, all kinds of things may hinge on when exactly travel arrangements need to be made.

Maybe foilfanatic's reaction was a bit much but maybe not because a lot of members may share foilfanatics frustration, especially those new to the sport, who can't understand why the USFA seems to be so out of step with the modern world.

Sure there are lots of explanations on this website and amongst older members, as to why entries have to be faxed, why close of check in times aren't posted until sometimes a week before the event, why tournaments aren't in large urban centers, why events have to last over four days and why the USFA can't get a bigger font but I believe that there are many members who don't understand why things don't change and why things are run in what appears to be an inefficient manner. And so they get upset. Unfortunately, the longer they are in the sport, they eventually resign themselves to accept "that this is way things are done in fencing in the US."

Hopefully the new officers, who ever they will be, will be able to move the USFA into the twenty-first century.

[jjefferies]

Originally Posted by foilfanatic

This is completely unacceptable. We have to make plans for travel, and with prices the way they are for flights, cars, etc. we should be able to know start times at least 60 days before a major event. This affects everyone in our club traveling to nationals and I'm sick of the USFA failing to inform us with adequate time to plan travel. There's just no excuse for it ... I'm just livid.

Hah, take it to the subdirectory on USFA elections. We don't care for any more random impugning of the USFA processes.

[seak]

Originally Posted by teacup

Members want to make plans with their lives and get the best possible prices on their travel plans. Besides air, some are waiting to finalize rooms with THS or organize their coaches travel plans. Not only fencing but plans for summer camps, classes, work or vacation days, all kinds of things may hinge on when exactly travel arrangements need to be made.

Agreed, but unless you're silly you'll follow Peach's advice (and for that reason) and plan on flying you/coaches/competitors out the day before (or earlier) and back the day afterwards. Hence all you really need for planning is the day schedule which is already posted.

It's slightly ridiculous that close-in check in time isn't up. It's just low on my list of things that I consider important or would like the USFA to fix. Somewhere well below paying referees, and actually having an integrated database/computer system. It's not something to get furious about, because the reality is if you're being smart it doesn't matter that much.

[teacup]

I agree it is lower on the list of things to be fixed and of course in an ideal world everyone would come one or even two days in advance and fly home the day after but that is not necessarily everyone's reality.

It is not a question of people deciding to be "silly" or not being smart. Some people have financial and time constraints. (Surely, members of the USFA can sympathize with financial constraints. )

If people choose to be silly so be it but that doesn't mean information shouldn't be posted in a timely fashion.

Bottom line, is there a reason that the tournament committee can't post close of check in 21 days before the start of summer nationals and 24 days after the first close of registration?

And maybe the "furiousness" is just a reflection of overall frustration.

[Mr.MightyMouse]

Can I get an "Amen"?

[hello?]

My amen. I am planning to fly in days before for many reasons -- but hate hanging around at the end of Nationals (everybody has left, strips are down, I am paying for an extra hotel night for NO REASON when I was done fencing at noon) if I can help it. And, guess what?, it CAN be helped. If the USFA tells me that my event starts at 8 a.m., I KNOW I can fly out that night EVEN IF I WIN IT. If my event starts at 2 P.M., then booking a flight that night might mean betting on my lousy fencing.....Sorry, but the end of late-entries is over. The question is not whether we can adapt and deal with the USFA not posting check-in-times, the question is why the @$<*%@ haven't they and why the @#$%^ should we?

[seak]

there wont be many refs left around either at that point, since mostly they tend to catch the 8pm flights out too .

On the last day everyone wants to get home.........of course depending on the state of the airlines and various airports scattered throughout the country, you may or may not be spending that night in a hotel room (or cot in the airport) anyways (which is why you probably shouldn't plan on leaving for a family vacation the next day).

Really though if there's a huge difference I'd get the flight out that night, and check what the airlines missed flight policy is. Southwest's is pretty much no penalty and mostly what I end up flying, so maybe that's why I don't care as much.

No matter your reality you should fly in the day ahead or you're just asking for trouble, and not getting to fence in your event is really expensive

[teacup]

If Southwest is available, buy a flight out in the morning and a flight out at night, whichever flight you don't use, you will a credit for future use.

One good thing about these fencing tournaments not being in the major airport cities is that flights can usually be made if you get to the airport even an hour before the flight. That wouldn't be possible at LAX or JFK.

Or maybe you could email the tournament committee and/or national office and ask it they know close of check in for your specific event.

[AllezCat]

The check-in times have been announced on the USFA website:

http://www.usfencing.org/usfa/compon...einfo/id,1776/

There's a link from the home page, but oddly not from the SN info page.

Now we can gripe about it being posted as a PDF download instead of just an HTML page...

[teacup]

Can someone please post the pdf file?

The USFA website isn't loading.

[dberke]

Here it is...

Dan