Your coach's policy on strip coaching at Nationals?

[hello?]

Just curious. Does your coach/club have a policy regarding coaching at Summer Naitonals? Does he/she always go? How much does he/she usually charge? Does the price include additional lessons while he's there? Is the cost part of club membership or treated as a separate item? Is it mandatory for members who are going to Nationas to share the cost of the coach whether they want him/her to strip coach them or not?

[bunbury]

Well, yes.

[Peach]

My club charges $25 per event for a local tournament (I never get coaching at local events anyway because they don't matter), $50 for regional, and $75 for national event, with a cap at four events so that people don't go bankrupt if they're fencing a million events. The coaches also divide their travel expenses up among the fencers who go. Obviously, there's some wiggle room and some juggling; sometimes coaches don't go to certain events if there aren't enough people to warrant it (unless there's a serious medal to be won). We tend to send coaches and a crew of kids to NACs so the travel expenses are spread out pretty well.

As for foreign events, I work it out with my sabre coach about World Veterans. I paid for his airfare to go to Bath, England, but he treated it as a chance to take a vacation around the dates so he didn't charge me hotel etc. I'm trying to find a good fare for Limoges so I can afford to take him.

[KD5MDK]

Obviously you need to find some Veteran clubmate to drag into the top 3 so you can split the coach.

[Grimaldi]

My coach's policy on strip coaching has worked pretty well so far. I implement his advice, and it fails to work and I get touched, he takes off an article of clothing, and we repeat until.....

oh STRIP/PISTE coaching. nevermind.

[KD5MDK]

Depending on the coach, that could be a tremendous motivator.

[headcut]

Depending on the coach, that could be a tremendous motivator.

...yeah, there's some coaches that I definitely don't want to see w/o clothes.

[Peach]

Obviously you need to find some Veteran clubmate to drag into the top 3 so you can split the coach.

I had one, but she moved to a different state

[catwood1]

While I don't fence at NACs, the policy at my club is that a coach goes to almost every NAC where alot of fencers are competing. Maybe the number is 3 or 4 or more, theres no set number. There is no cost to the fencers for when the coaches go to the NAC. Its considered to be part of the club dues and things like that.

[Craig]

You'll find that it varies from club to club, but it is common practice to pay the coach's travel expenses and some sort of coaching fee for the tournament coaching. Whether your coach includes pre-competition warm-ups or lessons is highly variable.

Craig

[Allen Evans]

My club's policy on coaching at tournaments:

http://www.dominionfencing.org/policies.html#COACHING

AE

[fencerbill]

In 2003, about half of the US Vets flew through Paris to Limoges and a lot of the others took the train. Worked out about the same.

However, Limoges has a small airport and there are about 2 flights a day. I expect there are a number of trains. I flew and was surprised to find that as you get to Central France, away from the development around Paris, there are a lot of areas that are as wooded as western Massachusetts or central Pennsylvania.

If you want to see France, probably best to fly one way and go by train the other way. The planes were, then, about 40-60 passengers so get your reservations early.

My club charges $25 per event for a local tournament (I never get coaching at local events anyway because they don't matter), $50 for regional, and $75 for national event, with a cap at four events so that people don't go bankrupt if they're fencing a million events. The coaches also divide their travel expenses up among the fencers who go. Obviously, there's some wiggle room and some juggling; sometimes coaches don't go to certain events if there aren't enough people to warrant it (unless there's a serious medal to be won). We tend to send coaches and a crew of kids to NACs so the travel expenses are spread out pretty well.

As for foreign events, I work it out with my sabre coach about World Veterans. I paid for his airfare to go to Bath, England, but he treated it as a chance to take a vacation around the dates so he didn't charge me hotel etc. I'm trying to find a good fare for Limoges so I can afford to take him.

[Emfuser]

Previous coach: all expenses must be covered by students. Additional fees for extra time spent on warm-ups and lessons.

Current coach: Just wants reasonable attempt at covering expenses made.

[jjefferies]

Just curious. Does your coach/club have a policy regarding coaching at Summer Naitonals? Does he/she always go? How much does he/she usually charge? Does the price include additional lessons while he's there? Is the cost part of club membership or treated as a separate item? Is it mandatory for members who are going to Nationas to share the cost of the coach whether they want him/her to strip coach them or not?

WooWee sounds like GGFC. They have formal policies along those lines.

Perhaps I should first ask what do you mean by coaching? My first assumption was strip coaching during the bout? I have a personal policy of NO!NO! which I highly recommend. At this last Chicago NAC after a bout Joe Elliot gave a public discourse to the onlookers who had been noisily strip coaching his opponent, that at some point they had to let the little bird fly for itself. Seriously if you haven't learned how to fence before you arrive you aren't going to learn it on the strip. Upon occasion a very intelligent colleague MIGHT be of some use to point out something that you're missing. Personally I can only retain three things when I fence, where the strip is, who is the director and who is the opponent. Anything more and my mind overloads and I start dropping items. My coach would strip coach me - IF I allowed it. But I prefer he just watch. And he can watch everything I do and remember every error I make and drag me over the coals about it later. And please don't give him any ideas about charging. I'm sure I'll be paying for the gas to drive to San Jose. As to membership. I hope he's not coaching any non-members.

[HDG]

My current coach has only ever shown up once while I was fencing, and all I got was him hitting himself in the forehead in frustration…

[Timberwolf_CY]

When I was the president of UCM's club, I very occasionally would coach during tournaments. During the actual fencing, I limit myself to clapping and saying something like "Nice touch, do it again!" during a good point, and roughly the opposite if it's the opponent's touch. I try to keep negative coaching to minimum though, because as JJeffries pointed out, if they can't fence at the tourney, they're not going to learn right then and there. I will also give pointers I saw during breaks or between bouts, but again, I give the quick and dirty, I don't like to overtax the mind of my fencers. I do that enough during my lessons. As to effects, sometimes the advice I provide is brilliant and swings the bout, even from a considerable deficit, and other times it has nearly no effect, since the advice I give has more to do with reflexive actions, and again as JJeffries alluded to, these cannot be taught effectively at a tourney.

I think one-liners and similar "quick and dirty" pointers are the most valuable. Someone here a while ago once said, while he was refereeing a bout, that a coach pointed out that the referree was not seeing a particular action, and shouldn't do it anymore. I think that kind of short, poinant advice is the most valuable. A good cheer can also do wonders for morale, which can greatly improve fencing, as long as it isn't overdone.

Wow, kinda took the stick and ran with it...back on topic!

[MdA]

Previous coach: all expenses must be covered by students. Additional fees for extra time spent on warm-ups and lessons.

Current coach: Just wants reasonable attempt at covering expenses made.

As they say, you get what you pay for. If your coach is a professional, full-time coach, you should expect to share his expenses and pay for lessons,and strip-side coaching. If you coach is a part-time, recreational coach then you can expect to pay less.

The full time professional coach should be paid for his service. He is giving up income from lessons when away from the club and can't be expected to spend his own income to accompany his fencers to tournaments.

Look at the top fencers in the national rankings. Do you think that their coaches are working for just a tank of gas?

As for strip-side coaching...most of the best fencers receive valuable tactical info from their coaches while fencing...includes keeping the referees sharp.

[Emfuser]

As they say, you get what you pay for. If your coach is a professional, full-time coach, you should expect to share his expenses and pay for lessons,and strip-side coaching. If you coach is a part-time, recreational coach then you can expect to pay less.

The full time professional coach should be paid for his service. He is giving up income from lessons when away from the club and can't be expected to spend his own income to accompany his fencers to tournaments.

Look at the top fencers in the national rankings. Do you think that their coaches are working for just a tank of gas?

As for strip-side coaching...most of the best fencers receive valuable tactical info from their coaches while fencing...includes keeping the referees sharp.

That's the screwball thing, actually. Former coach is retired, doesn't need the money AT ALL, and only opens the club (which has no actual space of its own) two days a week.

Current coach is retired and does this full time. The club has a salle. Current coach simply is not obsessed with seeking self-validation through money.

[Jason]

Current coach is retired and does this full time. The club has a salle. Current coach simply is not obsessed with seeking self-validation through money.

I take it he is, instead, obsessed with seeking self-validation through poverty?

You're working from a flawed assumption.

[Allen Evans]

Well, SOMEONE is making a mistake here. But I don't think it's "Emfuser". :-)