Perspective Article: Why do Americans care only about football, baseball and bball?

[bunbury]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

It could be argued that MMA is simply a well packaged product the contents of which were already well established in popular culture and lore. Isn't it merely a product extension of boxing, and the landslide of martial arts movies? Soccer is the world sport. NASCAR has always had a highly intense regional following.

Although I can't find the article, there was a really extensive backstory to UFC and how hard people worked to make it the way it is. If the USFA was run as a profit-making, "this is a business that is here to make cash, this particular sport just happens to work for it" program, fencing would be very different.

[Delta]

Because it'd be downright unpatriotic to do anything else?

Also, I think basketball is collectively a cheaper sport to play than most others. the stigmas of broken necks and fingers in football may discourage the dainty image women and children must preserve in our society. Basketball is slightly less ugly to look at when it comes to sweaty women on television (at least according to audience response) than football.

[Redblade]

Originally Posted by Jason

And, come on, he's never heard of handball? Unless the only place he's looking for his sports info is his local news broadcast, he's just retarded.

I attended handball matches in Oklahoma City during our Olympic Festival in 1989. ... Oklahoma. Handball exposure. Yeesh.

[Schiavona]

Back to my question, Do we want fencing exposure? Like figure skating? Or do we want to be a mainstream sport like soccer? From what I can see soccer has HUGE participation with little media exposure. Figure skating has HUGE media exposure with much less participation than soccer.

I'd rather fencing be like soccer, but I don't see antbody in charge planning for the kind of infrastructure fencing would need to be that big.

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by Redblade

I attended handball matches in Oklahoma City during our Olympic Festival in 1989. ... Oklahoma. Handball exposure. Yeesh.

Just to note, in the US usually we usually have handball, the "like racquetball" kind. Team Handball is rather different.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Why is Mr Epee cool?

Because he posts cool, intelligent threads instead of meaningless bull**** drivel.

[the ancient one]

I think the "major sports" had the advantage of being more generally available at the time TV was new and looking for content. Now they are great platforms for selling beer, cars, razorblades and deodorant-- sponsorship is what keeps them on the tube.

Who sponsors Figure Skating in the US? Smuckers Jelly, Campbells Soup, State Farm Insurance, Marshalls Department Stores and Oil of Olay. I just checked.

I even found an account of how Ice Skating came to TV

http://www.broadcasting-history.ca/s...e_Skating.html

Fencing is just unlucky and a little late to the table. Network TV is sponsor driven now, and we are chasing our tail: if we are popular we will get sponsors-if we have sponsors we will become popular.

I have commented in earlier related threads that if Fencing ever did become "BIG !" that marginal athletes such as myself would wind up being--well, marginalized.

[Prometheus]

On the ESPN front-page currently the main headline is about the womens final at Roland Garros (French Open). On the right side of the page the video that immediately spawned was about the Belmont Stakes and the article below the dynamic content is about the UEFA championship that hasn't even started yet.

I am not saying that I consider ESPN to be the definitive outlet for sporting information, but it is an American media company. So, to say that Americans only care about the big three sports is an editoralization without much substance.

What the author was really ignoring was regionalism, and individualisim in sports audiences. He dismissed the NHL as irrelevant, Hockey has historically been a regional sport and is only (relatively) recently making inroads into non-traditional markets with teams in locations like Tampa Bay. There are certainly parts of the country where Hockey is significantly more important than baseball. There are also populations and locales where soccer and lacrosse are taken very seriously. If you average all of the regional variation, you end up with the sports that are common overall. It is equivalent to writing and article "Why to Europeans only care about soccer, F1 and tennis. After all, I don't see anything about handball on the Eurosport front-page either. Perhaps a better title would have been "Why I only care about Football Baseball and Basketball"

As for the Olympics, I think the games have suffered from the every two year rotating format. When the summer and winter games only happened every 4 together it was more special, and somewhat exotic. Now it seems like there is always an Olympics going on.

...and there is my editorial with no data or citations!

[Redblade]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Just to note, in the US usually we usually have handball, the "like racquetball" kind. Team Handball is rather different.

Just to note, yes, I know. Team. ... It's uncommon for individual handball "like racquetball" games to be featured at an Olympic festival. ... The team coaches I spoke with at the time included Rick Oleksyk and Dorothy Franco. Nice folks, willing to explain the game to anyone who might have been interested.

Thanks for the clarification, though. I'm sure there are many people who think one handball is the same as another.

[fencerwallet]

Broad-based interest at the grass roots level hurts fencing. My son has played little league since he was about 6 years old. Many of the kids he's had as teammates have stayed with it, and the older kids on his now Junior baseball team (although- shameless brag- my Y12 age son is the youngest) are either classmates in high school or starting high school, play or are looking to play on their high school team. It's a built-in development path.

Further, some of his teammates get dropped off in a Mercedes. Another teammate's grandfather literally collects cans from parents in the stands during games. Yet, these kids all play together on the same team. We parents all sit together in the stands. Fencing generally doesn't draw such diverse demographic.

(Further shameless brag: Yesterday, bottom of the extra inning, down by 1, 2 outs. Kiddo just creams a high 2-2 fastball to the left/center field gap, hitting on the bounce the 375 foot fence to drive in the winning runs. Bring on the playoffs!! Certain things, fencing just can't do).

[seak]

now you just need to make him a catcher

As someone who played baseball/softball growing up (until college) fencing just costs more, and you can't go out in your yard and practice with the friend from down the street nearly as easily. That being said I have found it a far easier sport to continue to be competitive in now that I'm in my mid-20's.

[fencerwallet]

Originally Posted by seak

now you just need to make him a catcher

As someone who played baseball/softball growing up (until college) fencing just costs more, and you can't go out in your yard and practice with the friend from down the street nearly as easily. That being said I have found it a far easier sport to continue to be competitive in now that I'm in my mid-20's.

He does catch. Fencing has made his legs so strong that he is pretty darn quick out of the crouch.

And, sports people have played as kids are often the sports they follow, watch, support, and have their own kids play later.

[seak]

first round bonus money here you come

Yes and no, everyone in my family outside my mom played baseball, my youngest brother still isn't that into it. No one in my family has ever played football, we all (outside my mom) follow it pretty rabidly now that Baltimore has a team again. My youngest brother and I both enjoy following soccer, and both played it, as did the middle one, who doesn't follow it. This one wasn't passed on by the parents. I played softball for 6 years, I don't follow it, I far prefer baseball. I'm the only one who played basketball we all follow college bball, etc and on down the line (cross-country, track, swimming, tennis, lacrosse between me and my 2 brothers we've pretty much played most things, some we all follow some we don't, some we only follow at the Olympics etc).

Mostly I think people follow teams, especially home town teams, and sometimes the sports they play. Yeah what you watch at a little kid will be what your parents watch, but as kids get older they tend to develop their own preferences. Also soccer is far more suited for a 5 year olds motor skills then fencing, and little league advertises in the schools.

[Soberin]

We must be honest with ourselves and admit that fencing is a miserable spectator sport. No way the most rabid European sports fan would rather watch fencing over the local soccer team or rugby for example. Certainly the casual US viewer may be interested out of curiosity for a while, but forget the long term.

If fencing was such a great sport to watch, why do I see the venues clear out at Div I NACs, with the best fencers in the country? No, it's not because people have to make a plane or are upset they were eliminated--it's because fencing is not a good spectator sport, even among those who know what's going on.

[KD5MDK]

Then why does it do so well in Europe? I keep hearing about venues filled with screaming fans in France and I presume Italy. Are their sports fans just too ignorant to realize how boring it is?

[Soberin]

I've sat in the stands in Europe. Of course there's more going on than here, but it's still pretty minor stuff when compared to soccer, cricket, rugby, and of course, motor racing.

[Phrogger]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Then why does it do so well in Europe? I keep hearing about venues filled with screaming fans in France and I presume Italy. Are their sports fans just too ignorant to realize how boring it is?

I, too, have heard these stories and I went to Italy recently expecting to find fencing equipment in every store. I spent an hour driving around the suburbs of Pisa trying to find some fencing equipment store. There was nothing at the address but a suburban neighborhood. I went into two major sporting goods stores (one was "Decathlon," I don't remember the other one) and asked for fencing equipment to no avail. My husband's Italian relatives gave me a halfhearted "that's nice" when I told them I was a fencer. I suspect that fencing is nearly as marginal a sport in the rest of the world that it is here. The rare exception might be a World Cup or other major event. I'd be thrilled for someone to tell me different!

[Soberin]

Phrogger is quite correct. We must not try to make fencing what it is not. We also should not in the least bit care about making fencing more popular in the US. Those who are interested will find us and the sport more than willing to make them welcome. Right now the USFA has quite a bit on its plate--growing the sport will happen (or not) naturally.

[CadetVet]

Folks:

I have a different theory about why fencing does not do well in the US - from the standpoint of media and spectators - it has to do with the fact that we don't develop our personalities in a media friendly way. See my post here - which has more details...

Gary.