Tournament Schedule for 2008-2009

[happy]

Posted:

http://www.usfencing.org/usfa/content/view/2702/162/

Big year for the fly-over states!

(Apologies if this was already posted, but it was new to me)

[KD5MDK]

Don't forget the dates being posted through 2014.

[mrbiggs]

Yes, Kentucky...looks like I'll be able to go to another Div1 NAC with some scheduling luck.

Thanks for pointing this out.

[oso97]

This is the part that truely sucks:

Junior Olympic Championships: February 13-16, 2009 (Fri-Mon) Junior/Cadet
NAC E: February 27-March 2, 2009 (Fri-Mon) Division II/Division III/Veteran/Wheelchair

There's one weekend between them.

[Nolano]

D'oh. All too far, except for Portland. I guess I don't get to fence in any NAC's unless I have a C rating by then.

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by oso97

This is the part that truely sucks:

Junior Olympic Championships: February 13-16, 2009 (Fri-Mon) Junior/Cadet
NAC E: February 27-March 2, 2009 (Fri-Mon) Division II/Division III/Veteran/Wheelchair

There's one weekend between them.

The weekend of the Rose Condon, to boot. I know I'll have the Masters the weekend before JOs too...

[teacup]

With only one weekend in between, would it would have been worth it to try to schedule them on two consecutive weekends at the same place and keep the equipment set up for the three days in between?

For example, three days of convention space, Tues, Wed, Thurs. in Atlanta vs shipping, set up and break down, etc. to travel to another location.

Maybe the three days could be for training camps?

Maybe this is something for the future to discuss.

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

The weekend of the Rose Condon, to boot. I know I'll have the Masters the weekend before JOs too...

Perhaps they can just pack you and Oso up with the equipment crates and ship you from one to the next, saving both airfares and lodgings...

[Eejit]

Boo, I was hoping for another one in Chicago. At least there's a DivIII/II in Coloumbus. Nats will be nice; the Gaylord Texan Resort in Dallas is a good place for it. And I'll be able to get my post-tournament four pound hamburger that I always crave too.

[DJ Apostrophe]

Originally Posted by teacup

With only one weekend in between, would it would have been worth it to try to schedule them on two consecutive weekends at the same place and keep the equipment set up for the three days in between?

For example, three days of convention space, Tues, Wed, Thurs. in Atlanta vs shipping, set up and break down, etc. to travel to another location.

Maybe the three days could be for training camps?

Maybe this is something for the future to discuss.

Several years ago (4 maybe 5) this idea was explored by splitting the January NAC over two consecutive weekends by weapon (foil and one of the epees (either mens or womens) one weekend and sabre and the other epee the other weekend). The idea was to be able to use a smaller venue less officials, etc. It might have been in San Jose or San Diego, I can't recall.

It hasn't been tried again, so I assume that there was some reason it was considered a failure. My guesses would be cost of the venue and cost and availability of officials. People (BC, Armory, Referees) are not likely to attend both consecutive weekends unless they're local, so your pool of volunteers is significantly compromised.

I don't know all the details, and wouldn't even know who to ask at this point.

Brad? You know almost everything there is to know about everything... you got anything on this one?

-w

[FusionWhite]

Thats a good NAC schedule for Louisville KY. One NAC in town and two more within 3 hours drive.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by DJ Apostrophe

Several years ago (4 maybe 5) this idea was explored by splitting the January NAC over two consecutive weekends by weapon (foil and one of the epees (either mens or womens) one weekend and sabre and the other epee the other weekend). The idea was to be able to use a smaller venue less officials, etc. It might have been in San Jose or San Diego, I can't recall.

It hasn't been tried again, so I assume that there was some reason it was considered a failure. My guesses would be cost of the venue and cost and availability of officials. People (BC, Armory, Referees) are not likely to attend both consecutive weekends unless they're local, so your pool of volunteers is significantly compromised.

I don't know all the details, and wouldn't even know who to ask at this point.

Brad? You know almost everything there is to know about everything... you got anything on this one?

-w

San Jose. January, 2004.

Sat-Mon NAC one weekend, Fri-Sun NAC the next. Set up that way to avoid conflicts with world cups that various weapon coaches thought were especially important and wanted both designated and non-conflicted. Different weapons had international events on different weekends, so we split our NAC to accomidate everyone.

My understanding is that we got killed on expenses. It was also deemed unworkably difficult on the tournament officials staffing, where many people were needed for both tournaments, therefore either requiring a stay over the three intervening days or separate flights on back-to-back weekends.

-B

[telkanuru]

Gaylord Texan Resort.... snicker...

[teacup]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

San Jose. January, 2004.

Sat-Mon NAC one weekend, Fri-Sun NAC the next. Set up that way to avoid conflicts with world cups that various weapon coaches thought were especially important and wanted both designated and non-conflicted. Different weapons had international events on different weekends, so we split our NAC to accomidate everyone.

My understanding is that we got killed on expenses. It was also deemed unworkably difficult on the tournament officials staffing, where many people were needed for both tournaments, therefore either requiring a stay over the three intervening days or separate flights on back-to-back weekends.

-B

Splitting the Jan NAC in 2004 was a little different that having two NAC's one week apart in the same location vs two weeks apart in a different location. The refs, bout committee, etc. still have to fly back and forth unless one of the NAC's is cancelled. Instead of setting up and tearing down twice and shipping the equipment, the money saved shipping would be spent on three days extra rental of convention space which could be offset with training camps or additional events.

(The San Jose split was also not the best split for everyone. Foil and sabre events were on the same weekend respectively while the men and women's epee was held over two weekends. That meant that a single weapon epee coaches and refs had to travel twice compared to single weapon foil and sabre coaches and refs.)

If there were going to be two NAC's back to back the February and March ones would be a good combo since they usually are two different sets of fencers. Jr/Cdts for JO's and adults and Vets for Div II/III/Vets. Though there is some cross over, I believe it isn't as much as between other NAC's.

Having the three days in between would be a great time for the Junior teams to actually get to train together since most of them will be there for JO's.

Shipping and travel costs may start to rise due to higher energy costs which may make it more worthwhile to stay longer in one place. Anyway, it is just a suggestion.

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

Perhaps they can just pack you and Oso up with the equipment crates and ship you from one to the next, saving both airfares and lodgings...

Did you skip the part where there's a regional tournament we're both (I assume) going to in between them? That cuts the shipping savings considerably.

Originally Posted by telkanuru

Gaylord Texan Resort.... snicker...

You laugh, but last time I was in Dallas I had some time to kill and swung by there. It's a seriously impressive place.

[CadetVet]

I've attached a map that shows (roughly) the distribution of fencers (based on division) (the red disks) and then plots the National Tournaments for 2008-09 (the red circles). It is pretty scary - in essence, there are very few fencers (relatively) in the places where events are taking place - and further, very few events in driving distance of populous fencing centers. Given the state of the airlines, this could prove to be a very difficult year.

For one, I'd vote for increasing the event prices and putting events where the fencers are...

[teacup]

With rising energy costs and economic uncertainty, there are those who believe that many aspects of our lives will become more regionalized. Four day fencing tournaments in large venues spread out over the country, may be one of the casualties of escalating oil prices and rising air fares.

The discussion of whether or not the USFA has to change may no longer be a matter of choice.

Perhaps the USFA should reconsider signing contracts until 2012.

[mfp]

Originally Posted by CadetVet

For one, I'd vote for increasing the event prices and putting events where the fencers are...

Putting events "where the fencers are" does not necessarily make for the least cost overall to the fencers who do (or might) attend.

Some earlier experimenting runs have found the usual winner for the lowest estimated overall cost for the attendees is often Las Vegas, even though most attendees would have to travel to it.

[teacup]

Originally Posted by mfp

Putting events "where the fencers are" does not necessarily make for the least cost overall to the fencers who do (or might) attend.

Some earlier experimenting runs have found the usual winner for the lowest estimated overall cost for the attendees is often Las Vegas, even though most attendees would have to travel to it.

So why haven't there been any NAC's in Vegas? Or did I miss one?

[LordShout]

The population center of the country is remarkably close to where the tournaments are, there might be a correllation of travel cost dropping around the pop center? Worth checking out if someone has time.