Tournament Schedule for 2008-2009

[mfp]

Originally Posted by teacup

So why haven't there been any NAC's in Vegas?

Good question.

However the USFA probably has concentrated on trying to minimize its expenses for NACs versus minimizing the expenses of fencers and families who go to NACs.

Originally Posted by LordShout

The population center of the country is remarkably close to where the tournaments are, there might be a correllation of travel cost dropping around the pop center? Worth checking out if someone has time.

No, there's a correllation for *transport* costs, not travel costs. I believe the USFA stores its equipment somewhere in the middle of the country.

As for *travel*, prices of air fares and hotels are not terribly related to population centers. Prices of air fares also have little to do with distance travelled. Both are far more affected by competition and other factors.

[If done poorly "regionalization" could actually increase not reduce travel expenses for attendees overall.]

Las Vegas kept winning analysis runs due to its hotel rates combined with competitive airfares from almost every origin. It didn't matter that pretty much every attendee would have to travel to LAS and use hotels.

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Did you skip the part where there's a regional tournament we're both (I assume) going to in between them?

Assuming you can get out of the crates, you mean.

[teacup]

I wonder when the day schedule for the October NAC will be posted.

(SWA is booking flights into October.)

[seak]

That would be useful

[Inquartata]

Not to mention wildly unexpected.

[dberke]

Originally Posted by teacup

I wonder when the day schedule for the October NAC will be posted.

(SWA is booking flights into October.)

I've already booked my flight to the October NAC... since I'll be fencing three events, I know I'll be there pretty much the whole time, so locking in a cheap $270 flight now made more sense than waiting until September and paying $500...

This is also one of those rarely-mentioned benefits of getting into refereeing - if I were only fencing one or two events, I could still book the trip now for all four days. That way, the days I'm not fencing can be spent refereeing - which is, incidentally, an activity that will partially subsidize the trip.

Dan

[teacup]

A lot of the hotels around the Columbus Convention Center are already sold out during the dates of the NAC.

[dberke]

Originally Posted by teacup

A lot of the hotels around the Columbus Convention Center are already sold out during the dates of the NAC.

I almost always rent a car and stay in a hotel away from the convention center, usually somewhere in the suburbs. I always find good hotels that are usually in the $50/night range, which is half the THS rate at the venue hotels.

I tend to stay in hotels that offer kitchenettes so that I can swing by a grocery store and stock up on food. I make my own breakfast in the room and sometimes will prepare a lunch to bring with me to the venue. It ends up being a lot cheaper than the nasty $6 burger at the convention center.

Any parking charges I pay at the venue are usually offset by staying at hotels that offer free internet (rather than $11/day at the venue hotels.) Plus, having a car lets you explore the city a bit and go find more restaurants than what's in walking distance. Often, I'll pick up or drop off teammates at the airport too.

The bottom line is, do some homework on all national events. Fire up the spreadsheet and total up the all of the costs (car vs. no car, THS hotel vs. suburb hotel, etc.)... I think you'll be amazed at how much cheaper these events can be with a little planning.

Dan

[teacup]

Originally Posted by dberke

I almost always rent a car and stay in a hotel away from the convention center, usually somewhere in the suburbs. I always find good hotels that are usually in the $50/night range, which is half the THS rate at the venue hotels.

The added stress of driving in an unfamiliar city to make close of check in isn't always worth the saving in hotel costs.

To save money many young fencers travel on their own or in groups with a chaperone. Unfortunately, renting cars isn't an option for fencers under 25 years of age.

This is one reason, of all the national events, the November NAC should be at a convention center with a hotel attached. Last year's Dallas NAC was a terrible location for many young adult fencers. Many spent a fortune in taxis.

The March NAC, which attracts more adults over 25, is better if there isn't an attached hotel.

[passata_sotto]

Originally Posted by dberke

I almost always rent a car and stay in a hotel away from the convention center, usually somewhere in the suburbs. I always find good hotels that are usually in the $50/night range, which is half the THS rate at the venue hotels.

I tend to stay in hotels that offer kitchenettes so that I can swing by a grocery store and stock up on food. I make my own breakfast in the room and sometimes will prepare a lunch to bring with me to the venue. It ends up being a lot cheaper than the nasty $6 burger at the convention center.

Any parking charges I pay at the venue are usually offset by staying at hotels that offer free internet (rather than $11/day at the venue hotels.) Plus, having a car lets you explore the city a bit and go find more restaurants than what's in walking distance. Often, I'll pick up or drop off teammates at the airport too.

The bottom line is, do some homework on all national events. Fire up the spreadsheet and total up the all of the costs (car vs. no car, THS hotel vs. suburb hotel, etc.)... I think you'll be amazed at how much cheaper these events can be with a little planning.

Dan

I agree with Dan. I am in charge of accommodations and travel for national events and we always rent a car and book away. I have already booked for both Oct and Nov. : Springhill Suites for both NACs:$99 for five comfortably in Columbus and $89 for five in St. Louis. They serve full hot breakfast and have microwave and refrigerator. We rent an SUV or minivan and we pick up and drive. Our cost per fencer is always reasonable.
The venue locations are going to hurt us because there are not as many airlines flying into those locations.
This year, even though we live only 12 hours from San Jose, Nationals is costing us so much more than Miami last year overall and in Miami we were on the beach Location does matter, especially at Nationals and NACs where there are youth, with families trying to combine holiday time with the fencing.
Whoever is in charge needs to look at a balance between cost to the USFA of transporting equiptment and people versus the number of people who do not attend because of high cost to them as individuals.

[teacup]

If you are old enough to rent a car here is a cost comparison for San Jose for four nights, five days.

Renting and cheaper hotel costs for four nights, rates from Expedia vs THS:

La Quinta Airport Hotel with breakfast included: $300.00
Mid size car: $300.00
Gas: One tank? $50.00
Parking five days at convention center: $25.00 x 5 = $125.00
Total: $775.00

Marriott Hotel attached: $135.00 x 4 = $540.00
Taxi to and from airport: 2 x $20.00 = $40.00
Five days breakfast: 5 x $20.00 = $100.00
Total: $680.00

I think it is really a personal preference if one likes to drive or not since each event needs careful cost comparisons. And as I stated for those under 25 renting a car is not an option so the best for youth tournaments is where the hotel is attached or across the street.

Many fencers cannot afford to be away from school and work for the entire event so traveling as a group is often problematic since fencers are arriving and leaving different days.

[KD5MDK]

In San Jose I found taking the light rail to/from the airport eminently practical when I was there in 2002.


Edit: I was in a hotel next to the Convention Center, for additional reference.

[dberke]

Originally Posted by teacup

The added stress of driving in an unfamiliar city to make close of check in isn't always worth the saving in hotel costs.

Certainly that can be a consideration. I personally enjoy driving in unfamiliar cities, but others may not feel the same way. I attribute it to growing up driving in LA... I've never found another city's roads to be very intimidating!

Originally Posted by teacup

To save money many young fencers travel on their own or in groups with a chaperone. Unfortunately, renting cars isn't an option for fencers under 25 years of age.

This is one reason, of all the national events, the November NAC should be at a convention center with a hotel attached. Last year's Dallas NAC was a terrible location for many young adult fencers. Many spent a fortune in taxis.

The March NAC, which attracts more adults over 25, is better if there isn't an attached hotel.

There's no question that renting a car and staying further away from the venue isn't for everyone. It really depends on your schedule and how much you're willing to pay for the convenience of staying right next to the venue.

Originally Posted by teacup

If you are old enough to rent a car here is a cost comparison for San Jose for four nights, five days.

Renting and cheaper hotel costs for four nights, rates from Expedia vs THS:

La Quinta Airport Hotel with breakfast included: $300.00
Mid size car: $300.00
Gas: One tank? $50.00
Parking five days at convention center: $25.00 x 5 = $125.00
Total: $775.00

Marriott Hotel attached: $135.00 x 4 = $540.00
Taxi to and from airport: 2 x $20.00 = $40.00
Five days breakfast: 5 x $20.00 = $100.00
Total: $680.00

San Jose is a bit odd. Rental cars in San Jose are insanely expensive as you point out. That's why I'm flying into Oakland (flight was the same price) and renting a car there for only $150 (including tax, for 5 days). Plus, the flight schedule to/from Oakland was better for me, and I get to fly Southwest there instead of Alaska.

Originally Posted by teacup

I think it is really a personal preference if one likes to drive or not since each event needs careful cost comparisons. And as I stated for those under 25 renting a car is not an option so the best for youth tournaments is where the hotel is attached or across the street.

Many fencers cannot afford to be away from school and work for the entire event so traveling as a group is often problematic since fencers are arriving and leaving different days.

Yup, it's not the right solution for everyone. But, with that said, I encourage everyone to do some research before making any travel plans. In the seven years that I've been travelling to national events (2 or 3 per season), I have found that I'm almost always able to get better rates by shopping around.

Dan

[fencerwallet]

Frankly, at this point I'm now conditioned where I don't really care where they are any more. It always costs me about $1500 per NAC and $2500-3000 for SN. Miami killed me last year. Every tournament I have to buy something new (You know who you are, stop nitpicking over literally every millimeter of those lames). This fall, the kid has hopes of being able to go to the designated events, so (ouch) add about $3000 for each of those if that happens. I wish I could write this stuff off.

To drive myself crazy, I create an overall annual fencing budget (you want sticker shock? Do this once, and you'll realize why you don't go out to dinner any more). It does help me stomach the more expensive venues, because I can save at other NACs in expectation of an overall annual expense. The kid will normally take a month off after SN, too, and that saves one month's worth of lesson and club fees. And, at the end of the year after SN, if I have aything left, I have at least some measure of satisfaction.

The NAC in St. Louis will be fun for me. I lived there for 3 years while going to school there, and it will be nice to see some old friends, the Central West End (is Ave's still there with their rockin' chicken wings?), Union Station, etc.

[journalmom]

Is the event schedule pretty much the same every year? In other words, for Oct NAC, would Cadet event be on Friday again?
Without knowing when the events are, I don't know how you can book a hotel or flights already...unless you know something I don't.

[teacup]

No, the schedule can change. Hotels can be booked for the entire time and then once the schedule is posted, the dates can be changed, obviously check the cancellation policy.

This is why the rooms are often sold out early, since many people book one or more rooms for the entire time. Even after the day schedule is posted, people wait to cancel extra nights and rooms until the close of check in is posted two weeks or less before the event. (This must skew the room calculations for both THS and the USFA.)

As for air, SWA is the only airline where one can buy the tickets and get credit for future use if changes have to be made. Most of the other airlines charge change fees.

In the past, I have bought a cheap ticket on SWA leaving Friday night returning on Sunday since those are the most popular flight days, in case the event was on a Saturday. If I had to change, the fare may be greater but at least I wouldn't have to pay a change fee. If I luck out and the event is Saturday, I get the cheaper fare.

Only those that know that they will be there the whole time can buy air in advance with any airline.

[jjefferies]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

Gaylord Texan Resort.... snicker...

Well it will be interesting. Hope I got the right place but here's some posts:
Location. The Gaylord Texan Resort and Convention Center on Lake Grapevine is one half mile from Silver Lake Marina on the northeast side of Lake Grapevine in Grapevine, Texas. One mile from the hotel are the Cowboys Golf Club and Grapevine Mills outlet mall.
Hotel Features. The marble and limestone lobby replicates a historic prairie town, with a glass atrium ceiling showcasing nearly five acres of indoor gardens, an indoor flowing river and a nine story oil derrick. Among the lobby recreations is a Texas wine cellar offering fine dining with Certified Black Angus beef paired with regional and international wines. An adjacent wine bar features wines, cheese varieties and gift baskets. The market style Riverwalk Cafe

Rated 3.0 out of 5.0 Feels like you're in a bubble!‎ - A TripAdvisor Member‎ - May 12, 2008
This hotel is enclosed in a dome and gives the feeling of being outdoors with the streams and greenery. It almost feels like being at Disneyland or Vegas.

Understand the Purpose‎ - A TripAdvisor Member‎ - Apr 4, 2008
Beautiful property, well maintained. Clearly a destination for a conference only. My family traveled with me and there are very few activities for children

Apr 2, 2008

I stayed at the Gaylord for a convention paid for by my employer. When I travel privately, I stay at low to midpriced places like Holiday Inn Express, etc; where I get free breakfast, free internet, free local calls, free parking, etc. The Gaylord is a shock to the system. I paid a $190 per night "special rate" for the convention, with no included breakfast, no free internet, no free local calls, no free parking. The mandatory extra $20 per day "resort fee" got me two bottles of water per day, the first 20 minutes of local and 800 number calls at "no additional charge" and wireless internet that I could not access outside of the room. Wow.
We all have to eat, so I checked out the 24 hour coffee shop for something, presumably, low in price. How about $9 for a cold sandwhich and $1.50 for a banana. Want to head into town for cheaper fare? A 5 minute shuttle ride to the center of Grapevine will set you back $12. Oh, and there is no free shuttle to and from the airport. Again, another $12 please, each way.
The room was good and clean and the staff attentive. However, I've had exactly the same room and service for half the price at either the Holiday Inn or the Hampton Inn.
On the plus side the Gaylord does have a nice ambiance with a huge indoor area under a glass dome, an indoor creek and a "riverwalk" similar to the San Antonio landmark. Service was top notch. When I complained about the in-room safe not working, security and maintenace came up in 10 minutes and replaced the safe.
Check-in and check-out were quick.
Overall, the Gaylord is nice but not for the casual traveler. Go only if someone else is picking up the tab.

Hmmmm.

[teacup]

This is their website:
http://www.gaylordhotels.com/gaylord-texan/

[edew]

You can fly in to SJC, OAK or SFO. Renting a car from any of those could get you to the Convention Center. Also from OAK, you take BART to the Millbrae station (goes from Oakland through the transbay tube to SF and then down to Millbrae) and then transfer to the CalTrain which will take you