who gets seeded first ?

[Nospam]

For seeding purposes in a tournament- if there are three fencers all who have earned their D08 (this past year - obviously) - who is seeded first in the initial list ?

[Coldfire]

Isn't it alphabetical by last name unless of course one of them has points?

edit:yeah I was wrong. Listen to the posts after mine.

[catwood1]

No. Is done randomly. It will probably show up on askfred as alphabetically, but in the actual event seeding, it MUST be random. Otherwise its very unfair to Mr. Zentner.

I wish it were alphabetical though

[seak]

if you're using fencing time: when you go to generate the initial seeding list there will be a button that says randomize fencers of equal ratings.......

if you're not using fencing time, I don't remember how to do it on other programs, by hand, shuffling works.

oh and coldfire, if a D08 has points something fishy/weird is going on, and their seeding depends on what type of points, how many, and what type of tournament you're holding

[irishfolker]

In a vets event, it's perfectly possible. I'm a U and I have national V50 points.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by seak

oh and coldfire, if a D08 has points something fishy/weird is going on :)

Although certainly not impossible.

First, the event could be something other than a senior event. It's certainly possible to be a D08 with (Y14) points in a Y14 event.

Second, it's even possible in a senior event. One can pick up senior points by fencing in open events in Europe. Manage to get more than 275 points that way and one is on the NRPS.

Note that taking points into account is not required in the seeding for most events. Including some national events.

-B

[seak]

which only matters if you're running a vet50 event or y14....alright though I should've said unusual as opposed to weird, I wasn't thinking about vet points or youth points, my mistake

yeah Brad's situation with the Europe event is mostly what I was thinking of

[Nospam]

So the fencer who earned his D08 in January would not be seeded ahead of a fencer who earned his D08 in June ? Do I have that right? So when you earn it in '08 has no bearing?

[bigdawg2121]

Of course not then it would be a D07-08 or some such.

[Goldgar]

As I read the operations manual, it's permissible for a division to have a ranking system within the division, and to use this system to seed competitions if all competitors are members of the division. I haven't ever seen that in practice, though.

[edew]

Who signed up first is a good randomizer. Most people won't know who's attending, so they're not going to try to get there earlier just for the purpose of getting a higher seed.

From the pools to the DE, I also randomize by seeing who is entered first (when doing the results by hand). Then I alternate: first, it's who's first, then it's who's second (or last, rather), then back to first and so on.

[OROD]

Originally Posted by edew

Who signed up first is a good randomizer.

Actually, it's not. Some people will consistantly get there early and some later.

It's not so hard to randomly seed people, all you need is some scrap paper and a pencil.

.

[KD5MDK]

Or a piece of software...

[epeemike81]

Originally Posted by seak

if you're using fencing time: when you go to generate the initial seeding list there will be a button that says randomize fencers of equal ratings.......

if you're not using fencing time, I don't remember how to do it on other programs, by hand, shuffling works.

In Engarde, fencers of equal fencer code are automatically randomized.

-m

[edew]

Originally Posted by Nospam

So the fencer who earned his D08 in January would not be seeded ahead of a fencer who earned his D08 in June ? Do I have that right? So when you earn it in '08 has no bearing?

If anything, a D08-Jan would be seeded below a D08-June.

[FencingKitten]

This is implemented in the Southwest Section - our SWS Circuit Cup has a rolling points list, where a D07 with Circuit points is seeded above a D07 without but below a D08.

In XSeed, fencers of equal classification and year are automagically randomized, and can be manually adjusted.

[DJ Apostrophe]

Originally Posted by FencingKitten

This is implemented in the Southwest Section - our SWS Circuit Cup has a rolling points list, where a D07 with Circuit points is seeded above a D07 without but below a D08.

In XSeed, fencers of equal classification and year are automagically randomized, and can be manually adjusted.

Unfortunately, you guys don't follow the rules the whole way... the Ops manual says that you can use division points lists as long as all competitors are members of the division. One could make the argument that this could be extended to sections, but you guys don't award points to anyone who fences in the events and is a member of another section (as per Mr Epee's anecdote: "You can mess with Texas, they just won't keep track of it.") and thus, they don't get the benefit of this seeding mechanism.

-w

[Purple Fencer]

Throw the cards in the air and pick them up randomly...there ya go.

[OROD]

Originally Posted by FencingKitten

This is implemented in the Southwest Section - our SWS Circuit Cup has a rolling points list, where a D07 with Circuit points is seeded above a D07 without but below a D08.

I doubt that's the case since you can only use sectional points to seed for sectional-only events. I think I even asked Paul Schimelman about the seeding for the Longhorn once and (if I remember correctly) he told me that they did not use the sectional points.

.

[FencingKitten]

Longhorn uses Circuit points for all years where they are a circuit event. It's only been very recently that this has been codified, clarified, and enforced, so it may depend on how long ago you asked him.

And, everyone in the USFA is eligible for SWS Points. Only SWS members are eligible for end-of-season prizes. Just to clarify, we track points for all participants regardless of section, but only give awards to the top three section members in each wepon.