The Science of Nutrition and the Expense Behind It

[Delta]

I'd like to think I spend more time than the average American thinking about nutrition and the biology behind it.
That being said, despite all my knowledge, my knowledge cannot and does not afford the better quality foods which our bodies need most during stress and of course, competition. Saving up for NACs and the like is a BIG deal and I have to plan months ahead of time so I can afford the actual part of paying the event fees, transportation, and lodging. Food is always my last priority on the list, obviously.
I hope most people who post here don't eat McDonald's the morning of competition, so if you are one of those people who don't consider these expenses as a factor for food purchasing, do you bring any exercise specific foods to help maintain optimal energy throughout competition?

For those who do have financial constraints, found any obscure or creative ways to get the best for what you have and make it even better?

Just to get things going, my school has a deal with Gatorade and all of the teams are supplied with some Gatorade product; some teams have so much of it they get sick of it. For retail, what I drink at least once a day is at least $3 a can. They sell nutrition shakes in packages of 24, making a total of $72. Now that's pretty hefty considering it won't last anyone on a consistent exercise and conditioning regimen a month.
However, I have noticed a difference in performance when I'm not on the shakes and when I am. Anyone else use some comparable product and agree? So, is the formulated science worth it to you?

Either way, please poll away! It'll succinctly represent your opinion without defending it.

[counterattack]

Humans can get what they need from a well balanced diet. I think paying silly amounts for fancy powders that contain the same things that are in a well balanced diet is a trap set by marketers. If you truly understand the science, you can balance your diet on your own. And if someone is telling you that you need to drink Protein Shake 5000 (now with added Rambozine-3V) they are after your wallet. Or they believe it. Some people also believe you need to eat Emu lips to enhance your manhood.

You didn't have a "I care, I can afford it, but I think actual food is better" option in the poll. I will leave it to someone else to explain what this says about the poll, but it rhymes with ohmygod.

[fatfencer]

I'd like to think I spend more time than the average American thinking about nutrition and the biology behind it.
That being said, despite all my knowledge, my knowledge cannot and does not afford the better quality foods which our bodies need most during stress and of course, competition. Saving up for NACs and the like is a BIG deal and I have to plan months ahead of time so I can afford the actual part of paying the event fees, transportation, and lodging. Food is always my last priority on the list, obviously.
I hope most people who post here don't eat McDonald's the morning of competition, so if you are one of those people who don't consider these expenses as a factor for food purchasing, do you bring any exercise specific foods to help maintain optimal energy throughout competition?

For those who do have financial constraints, found any obscure or creative ways to get the best for what you have and make it even better?

Just to get things going, my school has a deal with Gatorade and all of the teams are supplied with some Gatorade product; some teams have so much of it they get sick of it. For retail, what I drink at least once a day is at least $3 a can. They sell nutrition shakes in packages of 24, making a total of $72. Now that's pretty hefty considering it won't last anyone on a consistent exercise and conditioning regimen a month.
However, I have noticed a difference in performance when I'm not on the shakes and when I am. Anyone else use some comparable product and agree? So, is the formulated science worth it to you?

Either way, please poll away! It'll succinctly represent your opinion without defending it.

For NAC's its especially important to develop a food routine that works for you and stick with it.

Some people carb load and others are protein junkies. As I get ready for NAC's I slowly phase a liquid diet in that isnt too hard on digestion. Anything that is hard on the intestines is bad for the eyes. Red meat is a no no for me for the last week of competition. So fish, whey protein shakes, burdock root, rice, herbal teas to tonify the mind, etc.

Meanwhile I take liquid multi vitamins and extra super B complex, ginkgo biloba

Eat for your brain, legs and lungs. the rest will take care of itself.

Fatfencer

PS: I stretch vigorously leading up to the tournament too so as to stay limber. I find a non red meat diet really helps my legs stay limber too. Too much red meat means too much testosterone. Not good.

[AdamH]

I try to get my tobacco when abroad as it's much cheaper however it is often worth paying the premium for Guinness if the house/local heavy is too grainy. Cup of tea with a dash of salt for breakfast, anyone?

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

For NAC's its especially important to develop a food routine that works for you and stick with it.

Some people carb load and others are protein junkies. As I get ready for NAC's I slowly phase a liquid diet in that isnt too hard on digestion. Anything that is hard on the intestines is bad for the eyes. Red meat is a no no for me for the last week of competition. So fish, whey protein shakes, burdock root, rice, herbal teas to tonify the mind, etc.

Meanwhile I take liquid multi vitamins and extra super B complex, ginkgo biloba

Eat for your brain, legs and lungs. the rest will take care of itself.

Fatfencer

PS: I stretch vigorously leading up to the tournament too so as to stay limber. I find a non red meat diet really helps my legs stay limber too. Too much red meat means too much testosterone. Not good.

Last time I checked, testosterone was a pretty solid performance enhancer.

Now you know why you suck.

[piste off]

Anything that is hard on the intestines is bad for the eyes.

Can you expand on that?

My last tournament I had major eye fatigue, which may have been from the long and late drive down the night before. But my coach has stessed the importance of "strong eyes" and I was wondering if/how diet affects that.

Thanks,

Rick

[Guerre]

The major things needed for eye health are vitamins A and C. While general fatigue and malnutrition can cause blackouts and so on, beta carotene is a precursor to vit A in the body and needs to be consumed on a daily basis. To ensure basic eye health all you realy need is about the equivalent of a carrot and an orange a day.

[Delta]

Humans can get what they need from a well balanced diet. I think paying silly amounts for fancy powders that contain the same things that are in a well balanced diet is a trap set by marketers. If you truly understand the science, you can balance your diet on your own. And if someone is telling you that you need to drink Protein Shake 5000 (now with added Rambozine-3V) they are after your wallet. Or they believe it. Some people also believe you need to eat Emu lips to enhance your manhood.

You didn't have a "I care, I can afford it, but I think actual food is better" option in the poll. I will leave it to someone else to explain what this says about the poll, but it rhymes with ohmygod.

actually, those fancy shakes you talk about continue to exist not because the same people who are addicted to energy drinks buy them, but because science has shown that the liquid calories you often can't pack and carry with you during trips and make yourself right before, during, and post competition immediately affect your body more quickly than solid food. That being said, it's also easier on the stomach for a majority of people (why do cyclists try to find the most calorie dense food during a race?). Third, portability, convenience of availability.

The cost, of course, as you pointed out, is the wallet.

[counterattack]

actually, those fancy shakes you talk about continue to exist not because the same people who are addicted to energy drinks buy them, but because science has shown that the liquid calories you often can't pack and carry with you during trips and make yourself right before, during, and post competition immediately affect your body more quickly than solid food. That being said, it's also easier on the stomach for a majority of people (why do cyclists try to find the most calorie dense food during a race?). Third, portability, convenience of availability.

The cost, of course, as you pointed out, is the wallet.

All of them, you think? Not a stinker in the bunch? Or even the majority? What do you think about the claims made on the packaging? All true and backed by science? Yet you can find a competitor in some sport to vouch for pretty much all of them. Even your most extreme fencer does not need these. Does not. Marathoner? Maybe... Power lifter? Most definitely. Fencer? You're doin' it wrong.

And easy on the stomach? Are you kidding? I have heard a lot of claims about SuperBuffShake Xtreme but easy on the stomach they are not.

-philip

[Cerian]

If you want shakes and stuff why pay the premium for premixed stuff when you can just get tubs of protein powder or creatine or whatever your fancy is and mix it in a blender? Hell, a spoon and a glass of milk works well enough. Tastes like crap but there's your 'nutritional boost'...

[fatfencer]

Can you expand on that?

My last tournament I had major eye fatigue, which may have been from the long and late drive down the night before. But my coach has stessed the importance of "strong eyes" and I was wondering if/how diet affects that.

Thanks,

Rick

I have some cites that I'll PM you with. Incidentally I lost your phone number and wanted to call you about your 900 Newton uni...

Basically it works like this..anytime blood is leaving the head to do something else for prolonged periods like digesting hard to digest foods your eyes wont see as clearly.

Acupuncturists will tell you about meridian "X" not functioning correctly, etc.

Also, boxing coaches and even fencers like Aldo Nadi say it cuts the eyes.

FF

[fatfencer]

Last time I checked, testosterone was a pretty solid performance enhancer.

Now you know why you suck.

I'm not so sure I suck that bad, frankly. Could be better but thats more a function of work/finances interfering with practice and lessons.

I have PLENTY of test. But too much and thinking goes out the window. For me this is a cerebral sport. IF I wanted to whoopass I'd have stayed in stickfighting.

I don't recall asking yer opinion anyways oh ye of the short bus!!

Epee fencers... the Rain Man of fencing!!!
ZZ excluded of course since she is smoking hot!!! A regular Norse Goddess.

Fatfencer

[mdstasinos]

Humans can get what they need from a well balanced diet. I think paying silly amounts for fancy powders that contain the same things that are in a well balanced diet is a trap set by marketers. If you truly understand the science, you can balance your diet on your own. And if someone is telling you that you need to drink Protein Shake 5000 (now with added Rambozine-3V) they are after your wallet. Or they believe it. Some people also believe you need to eat Emu lips to enhance your manhood.

You didn't have a "I care, I can afford it, but I think actual food is better" option in the poll. I will leave it to someone else to explain what this says about the poll, but it rhymes with ohmygod.

I have been involved with sports nutrition, targeted nutrition and medically rehabilitative nutrition for the past 10 years. I believe also you can get what you need from whole foods, but most people lack the discipline and time to be consistent with their diet. I know when this is challenged then , yes, a protein based drink and supplements can be very helpful in meeting our bodies needs for balanced nutrients, vitamins, minerals, phytonutrients, carbs,etc. If everybody understood bio-physiology and that every 90 days, 90 percent of the cells of your body are renewed, then the conclusion would be one of the greatest factors in creating your personal health is what you put into your mouth.
So, if you want to improve performance then you need to look at not the tournament itself but the what you do day to day and how you fuel your body. There are those who claim carbing out prior to a tournament is the thing to do but unless you carb 2 hours prior to the event it will do you no good. There are those that state protein based preparations is best for tournaments, I would tend to lean this way. Energy comes from our muscles which are protein based so is you want to have a consistent release of energy then you need to have a balance of fluids and proteins. If done correctly the body will recover rapidly after practices, aiding in the repair of muscle and creating leaner, denser muscle, which translates into healthier source of fuel.
Other factors that play a major factor in stress to the body during practices and events is dehydration. Normally, most individuals need 6 to 8 glasses of water a day, 64 oz., during practices and tournaments it nearly doubles to about 128 oz. of water,(not red bull, coke, gateraid, etc.), the body requires water to help the muscles and organs and brain to work correctly under stress. This being said in addition to what was posted with eye nutrition, being dehydrated will create stress to the function of the eyes and brain. All fun stuff!!!
What else do you want to know? I work with a medical team that deals with health and performance through Nutrition. I also use bio-analogics to test lean muscle mass to see how we can change the dynamics of muscles to fat ratios and how to create leaner, healthier muscle.
MD Stasinos
http://www.usfanominees.com

[counterattack]

I can see why it might seem from my previous posts that I think sports nutrition is bunk. That is not what I meant or what I think. The reason I felt compelled to post is because this is an advice thread and I don't want some other poor college kid coming to this board and thinking that if he isn't buying $3 per can protein shakes that he or she isn't doing what he needs to do to win.

If you have cash flow issues DO NOT BUY EXPENSIVE SUPPLEMENTS. Go to your college cafeteria and eat a well rounded omnivore's meal. That is my point. You will fence fine. By the time that a $3 shake is the lowest hanging fruit left for you to target for increased tourney performance you will want professional nutritional assistance and not just hearsay from the web since you clearly are on a path to the national team.

If, heaven forbid, you are a vegan athlete (or even just a strict veggie) you might just need a $3/can protein shake. Serves ya right, ya cud chewer.

[telkanuru]

Last time I checked, testosterone was a pretty solid performance enhancer.

Now you know why you suck.

I lol'd irl.

thx.

[telkanuru]

I'm not so sure I suck that bad, frankly. Could be better but thats more a function of work/finances interfering with practice and lessons.

I have PLENTY of test. But too much and thinking goes out the window. For me this is a cerebral sport. IF I wanted to whoopass I'd have stayed in stickfighting.

I don't recall asking yer opinion anyways oh ye of the short bus!!

Epee fencers... the Rain Man of fencing!!!
ZZ excluded of course since she is smoking hot!!! A regular Norse Goddess.

Fatfencer

Pssst- he was saying you're a woman.

[erooMynohtnA]

I can see why it might seem from my previous posts that I think sports nutrition is bunk. That is not what I meant or what I think. The reason I felt compelled to post is because this is an advice thread and I don't want some other poor college kid coming to this board and thinking that if he isn't buying $3 per can protein shakes that he or she isn't doing what he needs to do to win.

If you have cash flow issues DO NOT BUY EXPENSIVE SUPPLEMENTS. Go to your college cafeteria and eat a well rounded omnivore's meal. That is my point. You will fence fine. By the time that a $3 shake is the lowest hanging fruit left for you to target for increased tourney performance you will want professional nutritional assistance and not just hearsay from the web since you clearly are on a path to the national team.

If, heaven forbid, you are a vegan athlete (or even just a strict veggie) you might just need a $3/can protein shake. Serves ya right, ya cud chewer.

I totally agree. The right approach to nutrition is to eat right, and you don't need anything expensive to do it. Although, I won't deny there are good things in some supplements.

It just seems lazy (and silly) to me to depend on shakes, drinks, powders, and pills. There are top performers that really do need stuff like that to get that extra 1-2% or who are training so much it's more convenient, but the majority of people are wasting their money.

Maybe my experiences bias me. The people I always see with sports drinks and protein shakes are the same ones I have to counsel for failing their army physical fitness test.

[tchwojko]

I just noticed that the title of the poll is:

"The Science Behind Nutrition - Worth it? Believe it?"

I've noticed a lot of articles/comments/statements that use the word "science" and "belief" at the same time.

Science is not "true" or "false". It's a decision making process, that continually is refined, reworked and redone. Every non-abstract theory is in some way incorrect and/or incomplete, and is in the process of being corrected or completed, and hence in some ways never "true." This is often used as a bludgeon to discredit science and move towards a discussion of "right" vs. "wrong". Science can be done properly or improperly, but it is not "right" or "wrong". It helps make decisions in a reliable and repeatable way, and is always in flux.

Nutrition and biology seem to me to be in a tremendous amount of flux (eat carbs, don't eat carbs, eat these carbs,...) so it's hard to make decisions. The problem is that people take the results of the science as "truth" instead of "information to make a personal choice."

Gather all the information you can, recognize it's context and scope, and make a decision.

{end of rant...for now}

[Delta]

counterattack and eroosomething- Most college cafeterias make it extremely difficult for the college student-athlete to maintain a good diet, along with the variety needed to prevent the onset of insanity from the monotony of food. Anyone who has had a meal plan for on-campus cafeteria "dining" will know what I mean.

I also believe there is a difference between laziness and convenience. Some people just don't have the time to prepare a well-balanced meal every day anywhere from 3-6 times a day. The shakes do sustain me because some of us don't have the luxury to spend at least an hour making a healthy, complete gourmet meal for every meal.

Good nutrition not only requires preparation, but a great deal of planning. I challenge all of you who are skeptical about how "lazy" some athletes are to try buying one week's worth of groceries for a 2,200 Calorie diet in one trip, one planning session, guestimating the total cost with financial restrictions, calculating how much time it will take you to make each meal, etc. That's 21 (minimum for some) meals you have to account for that will have variety, without wasting any extra food. It takes a lot more time than many people grant.

Cerian - while your post does make a point, protein powders are not the same as nutritional shakes. protein powders are formulated to help the body build protein, not necessarily help the body prep/recover from excercise/competition, nor does it hold the same density of Calorie value. Nutritional shakes are used to help athletes sustain their metabolism and hungar between meals, too.

[Fencergrl]

Some people just don't have the time to prepare a well-balanced meal every day anywhere from 3-6 times a day.

Don't complicate this. Serious athletes who train many, many hours a day make it a priority to eat well.

Salads are a fantastic way to get a lot of the vitamins you need. Most salads last a few days in the refrigerator, so they can be made in advance. The vast majority of people don't eat enough vegetables. Packing fruits, nuts and veggies to snack on is just as easy (and cheaper) than processed health products and it's a better way to get your much needed nutrients. Smoothies are also another easy way to add veggies, fruit, protein (tofu/yogurt) to your diet.

Remember... the less processing that goes into whatever you put in your mouth the better it is for you. There's a reason why twinkies don't look like anything nature created. Heat, blending, crushing, cold temps are all processes that remove some nutrients. The less processing something has undergone, the more of the nutrients remain. Think about everything that gets done to wheat to make bread. That's why they add nutrients. Compare that to a raw carrot. Have you ever seen them add anything to a vegetable to enhance it's nutrition?

Now think about your bars and shakes... do they resemble food? Do the list of ingredients resemble food or questions on your chemistry test? Veggies just have bad PR and lack a good marketing department. Don't believe what a marketer tells you to be truthful. Their purpose is to sell you product. Use your common sense. Eat what people have eaten for centuries and flourished on.