En garde and lunge position

[epeeslasher]

Just curious how many coaches here emphasize having the arm in line with the front leg vs. right outside of the leg during the en garde and/or in the lunge and reasons why.

[RITFencing]

It depends... what weapon?

Also, for the lunge, where's the target?

I don't worry too much about the hand position as it relates to the leg, but instead as it relates to the elbow, shoulder and body.

Of course, I can get pretty anal about how the leg position relates to the body.

[epeeslasher]

foil, inside line, center of the chest as target. I'll probably forget some other info, getting what's in my head onto forum paper takes practice.

I've heard/read arguments like the foil being outside of the front leg completely closes the outside line hence stopping one route of the opponents attack, but I've also heard some claim the footwork helps determine point control (it does) so the front arm should be in line with the front leg during or while in lunge position (which is something I'm more skeptical about), even though you can be hit from the outside line now while en garde.

[tdwg83]

Neutral Engarde or Closed Line?

[epeeslasher]

what do you mean? neutral as in centered with the body or simply not closing any particular line? I'm describing the second one if that's what your asking.

And yes, for the first example above, closed.

[tbryan]

Originally Posted by epeeslasher

Just curious how many coaches here emphasize having the arm in line with the front leg vs. right outside of the leg during the en garde and/or in the lunge and reasons why.

I never have. I'm trying to visualize why hand vs. front leg position would matter in either on guard or the lunge.

Originally Posted by RITFencing

I don't worry too much about the hand position as it relates to the leg, but instead as it relates to the elbow, shoulder and body.

I agree with this.

Even if the hand tends to line up in some particular way with the legs, I can't imagine how talking about it will help the student. That is, if I imagine an on guard that I'd want to fix, it seems like hand-to-foot isn't the most direct way to get the student to feel what he needs to correct. I'm much more concerned about where the weight is on the feet, relaxed shoulders, soft hands, and good coordination (and independent control) of the hand and the feet.

In the lunge, I really don't want them thinking about it. The hand will probably be positioned a little differently when hitting a right-handed versus left-handed opponent. I imagine that it will also need to adjust if the opponent twists or dodges. It may also need to change a bit depending on the preceding action and what the opponent is doing, especially if the distance changes during the lunge. I don't want to teach a student something that they'll work hard to learn just to unlearn it later once their opponent isn't just standing there waiting to be hit.

[kuroutesshin]

I'm left handed, and usually keep my hand in sixte in all three weapons as my basic en garde. In epee and sabre it is silly for me to begin anything from the inside line of quarte.

Straight lunges should have your whole body in line. Indirect attacks can chnge it up a little.

I think it boils down to "it depends."

[tdwg83]

Originally Posted by epeeslasher

what do you mean? neutral as in centered with the body or simply not closing any particular line? I'm describing the second one if that's what your asking.

And yes, for the first example above, closed.

If you are using a closed engarde line then torso should not but visible on one side of the balde from the oponents position. This almost certainly moves the arm to an outside plane relative to the front leg. A more Neutral position brings it where it might line up but alignment is probably not a make it or break it on technique. Smooth straight arm motion and finger tip control should be the concern when placing the poit on target.

FYI. I've seen closed engarde stress in foil, but it is generally a must in sabre and epee. Many teaching diagrams show a neutral postion.

[epeeslasher]

Originally Posted by tdwg83

If you are using a closed engarde line then torso should not but visible on one side of the balde from the oponents position. This almost certainly moves the arm to an outside plane relative to the front leg.

FYI. I've seen closed engarde stress in foil, but it is generally a must in sabre and epee. Many teaching diagrams show a neutral postion.

Thanks, this is the kind of info I was looking for.

What about lunge position? What factors do you look for when determining whether the student has the correct pose? (yes, I know while actually fencing holding a lunge is rare, but just for arguments sake let's talk about the pose.)

[tdwg83]

Originally Posted by epeeslasher

Thanks, this is the kind of info I was looking for.

What about lunge position? What factors do you look for when determining whether the student has the correct pose? (yes, I know while actually fencing holding a lunge is rare, but just for arguments sake let's talk about the pose.)

Actually the pose would be crucial to examine early on. Things to remember:

• Even balance on both feet
• Back foot not rolling
• Forward shoulder relaxed
• Arm straight-elbow not locked
• Front knee not too far forward

There is a tendency to throw the trailing arm back. Thats not as important to some people but can help with balance and recovering.

Above all, not over lunging.

[telkanuru]

Originally Posted by tdwg83

Actually the pose would be crucial to examine early on. Things to remember:

• Even balance on both feet
• Back foot not rolling
• Forward shoulder relaxed
• Arm straight-elbow not locked
• Front knee not too far forward

There is a tendency to throw the trailing arm back. Thats not as important to some people but can help with balance and recovering.

Above all, not over lunging.

This is generally condensed into "relax".

[tdwg83]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

This is generally condensed into "relax".

I agree. These are just some of the signs to look for.