How to test lames???

[Timberwolf_CY]

Hi. Quick, basic question. I did a few searches, but came up with tonnes of results, first couple pages in each didn't yield anything obvious, so...

How do you test a lame?

I have been sort of made the unofficial armorer of my club in St. Louis, and we found what we think is a dead foil lame. I already know how to wash them, but it will mean nothing if I can't test it.

I have an ohmmeter, a basic needle (analog?) one you would get at Wal-Mart. Don't have time to look up the exact kind or anything, I'm getting ready to go back to Wal-Mart to work. I also have a test weight, it seems like it's brass or some similar-looking metal, it has a sort of cylindrical tab at the end...I thought you could use some weights to test lames, but I don't know for sure.

So, can some one help me out with this?

If there's a step-by-step guide on how to do this, a link to that would be appreciated.

When I get some money, I'm going to buy Merg's book, but right now I don't have the fundage for that, so this will have to do.

Thanks for any replies, I'll get back to check this in about five hours or so.

[SJCFU#2]

First off, you need the proper tools (it sounds like you already have most of what you need):

• An ohmmeter that can read in the appropriate scale (single ohms);
• The appropriate test probe (500 grams, with a 4mm radius hemispherical end - the rule say brass or copper, but stainless steel works pretty well - some test weights even include a suitable rounded end);
• A cable to connect the probe to the meter;
• A second cable to connect the lame to the meter (for just one lame it is probably adequate to have a crocodile clip at the end, similar to a body cord).

Once you have everything ready do the following:

1. Spread the lame out conductive-side up on a flat, solid surface, such as a table or the floor.
2. Connect one lead from the multimeter to lame (polarity doesn't matter).
3. Connect the other lead from the multimeter to probe (once again, polarity doesn't matter).
4. Touch the probe to the clip and make sure that the meter is zeroed.
5. Hold the probe so that the rounded end presses down on the lame (just hold it upright, let the weight of the probe provide the downward force).
6. Check the resistance between the probe and the clip (the maximum allowed under m.28 is 5 ohms).
7. Check resistance at several different locations - concentrate on areas where you already suspect there may be dead spots, or on locations which tend to fail first (collar, underarm, inside elbow of a saber lame). Be sure to check each panel - sometimes they come apart a bit at the seams and you end up with one panel be electrically isolated from the rest of the lame.

Hopefully I haven't overlooked anything too blatantly obvious - this is one of those things that can be tricky to describe but only take a minute to demonstrate.

[fencerbill]

The zero order test for any Lame, Foil or Sabre, is to take the guard of your weapon and touch it to the Lame. Move it around and you can map out where it is good or Wizard-of-Oz dead (really, most sincerely, dead).

This will not tell you whether it will pass equipment control, it will test whether it is fair to practice with.

For equipment control testing, you need the meter.

Be careful with your Walmart meter. The cheapest analog meters usually have a single, one times one thousand, scale. Your results are just about as valid as moving your guard around in contact with the Lame. Although I have seen graduates of the armorer's course at coach's college using such a meter.

I have bought analog multimeters at Home Depot, although not recently, which have several resistance scales for less than $20. You really need such a meter which has a one ohm scale to be able to tell if a Lame will pass the 5 ohm limit at a formal equipment control.

[Timberwolf_CY]

Yeah, fortunately I think I still have the receipt for my multimeter, because it I checked and I think it is the 1k range (it has 100 and 10 also), so I guess from the other thread I need the 2k range. Anyway, I should be able to bring it back and get a credit for it even without the receipt, as I never used it yet. They have one with the 2k range on it, I can just get that for $5, and it's digital (unless you guys think I should get the analog).

How exactly do I connect the brass weight to the multimeter? And, following, which end/part of the weight do I use to do the testing?

Thanks a lot for all your guys' help.

[Pescados666]

Yeah, fortunately I think I still have the receipt for my multimeter, because it I checked and I think it is the 1k range (it has 100 and 10 also), so I guess from the other thread I need the 2k range. Anyway, I should be able to bring it back and get a credit for it even without the receipt, as I never used it yet. They have one with the 2k range on it, I can just get that for $5, and it's digital (unless you guys think I should get the analog).

How exactly do I connect the brass weight to the multimeter? And, following, which end/part of the weight do I use to do the testing?

Thanks a lot for all your guys' help.

Shouldn't it be easier with you working at Wal-Mart and all?

[oiuyt]

I doubt you'll find one with a 2k range.

Usually what's being listed is the scale, not the range. And what you want is a 1 Ohm scale (you probably have a 1K Ohm scale). All of the various numbers on the display where the needle is are multiplied by the scale for the reading. Since you care about values down below 10 Ohm, having a 1k scale is virtually useless for anything other than the most rudimentary check. The meter you want will probably have different settings on the dial for 1k Ohm, 100 Ohm, 10 Ohm and 1 Ohm.

If your weight has the right tip (as mentioned, hemisphical), it probably also has a hole in it for a banana jack plug. That's how you would attach it to the meter. Note that most weights do NOT have this feature (including, probably, yours). At best you can jury-rig something that'll approximate the test.

A couple of the real armorers on here can probably do a better job of listing ideas for how to make a approximate testing device out of objects that you likely have access to than I could, so I'll leave that to them.

-B

[Rockstar44]

Yeah, fortunately I think I still have the receipt for my multimeter, because it I checked and I think it is the 1k range (it has 100 and 10 also), so I guess from the other thread I need the 2k range. Anyway, I should be able to bring it back and get a credit for it even without the receipt, as I never used it yet. They have one with the 2k range on it, I can just get that for $5, and it's digital (unless you guys think I should get the analog).

How exactly do I connect the brass weight to the multimeter? And, following, which end/part of the weight do I use to do the testing?

Thanks a lot for all your guys' help.

Now I am confused. What you need is the 1K scale. You have to be able to accurately read resistances below 10 ohms, and 1K is about the biggest scale that you will be able to do that with. 2K will make it twice as hard.

Analog is the way to go for this type of testing. Digital meters read WAY too slowly to pick up the smaller areas. Digitals are good for measuring resistances of weapons, but do not do as well for finding intermittent faults or dead spots.

The way that you descibe your test weight tells me that it probably has a small hole drilled into it somewhere. You will find that a standard banana plug (or the C line connector from a body cord) will fit exactly into this hole. You hook the other end to one of the meter leads. The other lead is connected to the lame, and as you run the test weight across the lame you read the meter. The little "knobby" end of the weight goes against the lame materiel.

[Rockstar44]

I doubt you'll find one with a 2k range.

Usually what's being listed is the scale, not the range. And what you want is a 1 Ohm scale (you probably have a 1K Ohm scale). All of the various numbers on the display where the needle is are multiplied by the scale for the reading. Since you care about values down below 10 Ohm, having a 1k scale is virtually useless for anything other than the most rudimentary check. The meter you want will probably have different settings on the dial for 1k Ohm, 100 Ohm, 10 Ohm and 1 Ohm.

-B

The Universal testers that Dan uses (and designed and built) have a ten ohm scale. Unfortunately, the cost puts them well out of reach af any but the most dedicated armorers. With some practice, a 1K scale is sufficient to detect spots exceeding standard.

[fencerbill]

Yeah, fortunately I think I still have the receipt for my multimeter, because it I checked and I think it is the 1k range (it has 100 and 10 also), so I guess from the other thread I need the 2k range. Anyway, I should be able to bring it back and get a credit for it even without the receipt, as I never used it yet. They have one with the 2k range on it, I can just get that for $5, and it's digital (unless you guys think I should get the analog).

How exactly do I connect the brass weight to the multimeter? And, following, which end/part of the weight do I use to do the testing?

Thanks a lot for all your guys' help.

Do you have an analog meter or a digital meter? You can test Lames with either.

A digital meter with a maximum reading of 2000 ohms should be fine for testing Lames.

When we talk about the scale of an analog meter we mean how much you multiply the numbers on the scale to get the ohms value. On a one thousand scale analog meter, when the meter needle points to 5, the value is 5000 ohms.

On an analog meter with a times one scale, when the meter needle points to 5, the ohms value is 5 ohms.

Someone else can tell you how to read a digital ohmmeter.

Most meters have 2 leads. To test the Lame, hold the tip of one lead against the Lame, and hold the tip of the other lead against the test weight as you move it around. Or use alligator clips or other refinements.

[Timberwolf_CY]

Mine does in fact have a "x10" OHM setting, along with a "x100" and "x1k). I was just reading the other thread and they were all talking about 2k, sorry to be confusing.

The weight does not have a jack plug in it, unfortunately. It has a hole for a weapon tip, and a large hold going through the weight near the center going from one side to the other. So, I still need a good way to attach the weight to the multimeter.

Thanks again for the help and replies, keep them coming, if you don't mind.

"Wisdom's only friend is time."

[Nolano]

You want X10. It'll show resistances between 1-10 ohms.

[Mergs]

T-wolf,

Since you have set your foot on the path of enlightment, you might find my book a great resource to help you with these sorts of questions.

Follow the link in my sig line to Purple's website to order a copy!

[DHCJr]

Mine does in fact have a "x10" OHM setting, along with a "x100" and "x1k). I was just reading the other thread and they were all talking about 2k, sorry to be confusing.

The weight does not have a jack plug in it, unfortunately. It has a hole for a weapon tip, and a large hold going through the weight near the center going from one side to the other. So, I still need a good way to attach the weight to the multimeter.

Thanks again for the help and replies, keep them coming, if you don't mind.

"Wisdom's only friend is time."

You want X10. It'll show resistances between 1-10 ohms.

No, No No !!!!

X10 is times ten. If the pointer is at 1 that means 10 Ohms. 1 X 10. 5 would be 50 ohms.

Get a new Ohm meter. As Bill said there are a number of places you can find one for under $20 and look for X1.

From your description, it doesn't have a 4mm diameter tip. So even if you drilled a hole for a banana plug you still couldn't use it.

Here is an alternate idea. You are trying to simulate a hit from a Foil. The reason for the round tip is you don't always hit flat.

Use a broken blade with the tip and wire still attached. Add a connector to the end of the wire to connect to the ohmmeter.

It is not 'Official, but it will be better than most fencers & many clubs have.

If you want to be more exact you can round the tip or use the tip at a slight angle.

[SJCFU#2]

Mine does in fact have a "x10" OHM setting, along with a "x100" and "x1k). I was just reading the other thread and they were all talking about 2k, sorry to be confusing.

If you are uncertain about what scale your meter is using then why not test it using a couple of inexpensive resistors from Radio Shack. Simply test two 10-ohm resistors in parallel and you'll get an idea where your needle points when it's reading five ohms (this doesn't even require any soldering).

I wouldn't recommend using a digital meter for testing lames - on most inexpensive digital meters the refresh rate is low enough to allow you to pass right over a small bad spot without even noticing anything amiss. If you do need another meter than I second Fencerbill's recommendation for the small, cheap one at Home Depot that has the 1x setting.

The weight does not have a jack plug in it, unfortunately. It has a hole for a weapon tip, and a large hold going through the weight near the center going from one side to the other. So, I still need a good way to attach the weight to the multimeter.

It sounds like one of those weights with a rectangular "window" in the side that allows you to look through and see the tip while you are testing (although I'm not certain why you would want to do this). So long as it has a properly sized hemispherical end then you might try simply jamming a banana plug into the window and holding it there (not a good long term solution, but it might work in a pinch).

Another option would be to make your own probe. Buy a piece of brass rod at a hardware store, file one end to the correct shape and size, then drill a hole just above the newly rounded end for your test lead (maybe size it to fit the pin at the end of your meter's test lead). Hold the rod upright and put a 500 gram foil weight over the top of the rod (the non-rounded end should fit in there just like a weapon tip). It will end up weighing more than 500 grams, but will still probably be close enough.

You can also make a probe using a brass nut and bolt (5/16 or 3/8) and a 500 ml water bottle. Rather than go into the details here I'll simple refer you to page 21 of Merg's book (added incentive to order a copy).

[DHCJr]

I forgot to say place the weight on the broken end for the 500 grams.

For SJCFU#2 use 3/8" and take it down to 8mm diameter (4mm radius)

What Rockstar44 means on Dan's box, it has a 10 Ohms center scale. It is a X1.

[tdwg83]

Chris,

http://www.multimeterwarehouse.com/YX360TRnf.htm

an example of one for $15. Notice on the bottom portion of the dial is says X1 X10 x100 ETC.... You'll need the X1, everything else is irrelevant.

Edit: An x10 might be accurate enough if the scale has graduations between 0 and 1. The needle won't move as far so it is a little harder to read but it might give you enough information.
http://www.multimeterwarehouse.com/m133f.htm

[hologramqueen]

absolute fencing gear has the proper 500g lame tester.. when I spoke to Dan at the PCC's he said that amanda has the one that he designed.. the link is
http://www.absolutefencinggear.com/s...75082935c3e2e3
I know that everyone doesn't have unlimited funding, but if you are serious about this, just like your fencing gear, get the proper equipment..
you can also go to leon paul's website
http://leonpaulusa.com/fencing/armoury/armoury.htm
this link has a complete section on what tools you should have for every weapon.. good luck and have fun!

[SJCFU#2]

absolute fencing gear has the proper 500g lame tester.. when I spoke to Dan at the PCC's he said that amanda has the one that he designed.. the link is
http://www.absolutefencinggear.com/s...75082935c3e2e3
I know that everyone doesn't have unlimited funding, but if you are serious about this, just like your fencing gear, get the proper equipment..

Actually the link list here looks to be for an Uhlmann product (I bought one direct from Uhlmann several years ago - I recommend anyone getting this plan on drilling a hole in the body for a standard banana plug and keep a quick-connect banana plug on hand for when the wire breaks where it is soldered to the screw eye).

Dan was probably referring to the brass combination weight/tester which Absolute made last year but does not appear on their web site. Those are really nice, but you have to provide your own cable - contact Absolute for price and availability.

Another option might be the Tripplette combination test weight (assuming they haven't changed their design since the last time I saw one it's one of their few products that I actually recommend). The threaded screw post on top of the 500 gram portion has the necessary 4mm radius at the end for lame testing and there is already a hole in the weight for a banana plug. At $29.95 this may be the least expensive option for a club armory where lames are tested occasionally but weights are needed all the time. However once again, you have to provide your own cable.

[Timberwolf_CY]

Mergs - I just got paid, I will be ordering the book soon!

Everyone else - okay, I need a 1x scale ohmmeter, that much is certain. Apparently I can make an appropriate probe out of a 500 ml water bottle, I may just end up doing that.

However, I need some help with something. I now know (thanks to Google) what a banana plug is. However, how do I connect it to the ohmmeter? Will I need to do a custom job on a wire to get it hooked up to it, or do I use one of the probe-wires that comes with a multimeter/ohmmeter and somehow connect it to one of those?

It's just, I need very specfic specfics, I don't know half of what you guys are talking about, simply because, well, I've never done anything like this before. Some of you are catching onto this and realize I don't know what's going on by writing relatively thorough posts, but some of you are like, "Do A, then X, to get to Z" and assuming I already know where the rest of the alphabet is. Do like they taught you guys in school/writing classes, and pretend you're writing to an alien or whatever who has no former idea what you're talking about. The only experience I had with a multimeter was about 3 years ago, but I realize now in retrospect, I wasn't even using it right. So, be as thorough as possible.

Like I said, I can get the 1x meter, either by ordering it or going to the local Lowe's/Home Depot/etc., but the rest of this stuff I'm lost on. Oh, and drilling through solid brass is not possible for me, I don't have those kind of tools. Brass pipe, maybe, but not a brass weight.

Thanks again for the help and patience. If you can keep it up, it would be greatly appreciated.

[SJCFU#2]

I need some help with something. I now know (thanks to Google) what a banana plug is. However, how do I connect it to the ohmmeter? Will I need to do a custom job on a wire to get it hooked up to it, or do I use one of the probe-wires that comes with a multimeter/ohmmeter and somehow connect it to one of those?

It's just, I need very specfic specfics, I don't know half of what you guys are talking about, simply because, well, I've never done anything like this before. Some of you are catching onto this and realize I don't know what's going on by writing relatively thorough posts, but some of you are like, "Do A, then X, to get to Z" and assuming I already know where the rest of the alphabet is. Do like they taught you guys in school/writing classes, and pretend you're writing to an alien or whatever who has no former idea what you're talking about. The only experience I had with a multimeter was about 3 years ago, but I realize now in retrospect, I wasn't even using it right. So, be as thorough as possible.

Okay - now you're really making this difficult (once again, this is one of those things that would be so much easier to demonstrate than to describe).

Lets start off with your multimeter. It should have two leads, one read and one black. The red one typically plugs into a socket on the meter which is labeled "A, V, OHM" the black one into a socket on the meter labeled "COM" (or something like that). The other end of each lead will end in some form of probe (often a pin set into an insulated grip so that you can keep yourself from becoming part of the circuit. For armoring purposes it is often helpful to cut the probes off of the ends of the leads and replace them with banana plugs. If you decide to go this way then I would suggest these solderless banana plugs from Radio Shack - at least they will be easier to install. However if all you want to do is one test then you might be better of improvising with a couple of saber head cords rather than modifying the leads (those nice, big crocodile clips will fit around a lot).

Now that you have have become familiar with your meter, connect one lead, say the red one, to the lame. This is where a saber head cord can come in handy - one end clips to the meter probe and the other to the lame. The connect the other lead (the black one) your test probe. Most have some form of a socket for a banana plug, even your simple water-bottle tester requires you drill a hole through the brass bolt, however since you've already said that you haven't access to a drill this might be another good opportunity to use a saber head cord to connect things together - simply connect one end of the head cord to the lead and clip the other end to the shaft of the bolt (assuming that's was you are using to make your probe).

Now touch the probe to the clip where it connects to the lame. If everything is connected properly than the needle on the meter should all the way over to the right (you may need to adjust the meter so that the needle is pointing at zero when you do this - there is usually some sort of a knob on the meter for this).

Now take your probe and set it down on the lame - the needle should swing to the left (infinite resistance) when you lift the probe from the clip, then back to the right when the probe touches the lame. It probably won't swing all the way back to zero - whatever it is pointing toward is your resistance. Check the resistance at several places on the lame. The resistance may appear to jump as you move around (especially if you slide it over a seam or fold in the lame), but whenever it stops (or if you do it slowly enough) then the reading should always be less than 5 ohms. Be sure to check all the panels, any patches, at the collar, under the arms and any spots that look particularly worn because that is most likely where you will find any problems.

Hopefully all this helps.