2008 Summer Nationals

[brtech]

I am head tech for first week of summer nationals.

We'll keep the armory open as late as we are there, or 6pm, whichever comes later.

We've looked into having armory checks late into the night at the hotel; there are always logistical issues that make in impractical. Either we don't have available people, or the hotel wants to charge us for using space, or something.

We will use the "bag ties" again. They rarely come off. You should double check to make sure that the tape is securely touching itself and is about an inch or so long. Occasionally it doesn't come out of the taper quite right, and if the armorer doesn't notice, it can come off. Get into the habit of checking the tape every time you report to the strip.

Tie wraps are a PITA, and I don't like them. Bagging tape works better all around, and costs less.

While we very occasionally have a long line during setup, its usually pretty fast moving, and I'll try to keep it that way, remembering that set-up itself is higher priority than equipment checks. I have 6 armorers and two volunteers. If setup is going well, I move more armorers to the check in line. If things are not going well, we have to keep them doing setup. As usual for SN, we have a very experienced crew: Ted Li and Dan Dechaine are both working the tournament, as well as Dave Burgess, Tim Hively and Ovy Waddups -- each has many years of experience at this kind of tournament. If any one of these guys tells you that you have a problem, listen carefully.

As was mentioned, the thing that moves the line the fastest is if fencers have all their equipment out and ready for inspection.

DO NOT SCHLEP YOUR BAG ANYWHERE NEAR THE TABLE! We will not allow bags at the table.

• Have your mask out, bib in normal position
• Have your cords unwrapped so there is about 12" or more between any 2 ends. It's actually better if they are not completely unwound, but better unwound than wrapped tight. Have all old marks off! Do this before you come
• Have your lame out, flat, right side out, zipped, collar fastened
• Have your glove (saber) out and ready for inspection

I cut back on how many cords we test depending on line length. If the line is long, I tell the crew to limit how many cords we pass. It goes from around 4-5, to 3 and then to 2. We PASS that many. That means if you have one that fails, we'll test another until we pass the max number. Hand us your best two first. That way, if we are restricted, you have your best ones tested and marked. We will always test two lames, two gloves and/or two masks. If we are busy, it's limit of two.

It doesn't really matter what order you give us equipment. Most armorers would prefer (for a saber fencer): lame, then mask then glove then cords, but the differences are very small. For foil, it really doesn't matter, and it definitely doesn't matter for epee. Depending on how many volunteers we have, we will have someone walk the line helping you get your stuff ready to test. We may also have some volunteers doing the marking. If that is happening, try to keep the space clear for the next person in line while your stuff is getting marked.

Make sure you know what the mask mark looks like (this year it's a line drawing of two fencers doing a riposte with "2008 San Jose Summer Nationals" on the bottom) and where it is on your mask.

If you have taken your old marks off, than the only marks will be the ones we put on. If we have to spend time removing marks, that makes the line longer. If we have to turn your lame right side out, zip it or fasten the collar, then makes the line longer

Read this thread!

And fencers, would you PLEASE be courteous to others and not send your parents/boyfriend/whatever through the line with your extra cords until the line is pretty much worked through?

If you have a significant unexpected failure, the line is long and you have to purchase a replacement, you can ask the armorer if you can bring your replacement item directly to him, bypassing the line. If you ask nicely, you will usually be granted the privledge. Please don't abuse us.

[telkanuru]

FWIW, I always make sure the end of my body cord that connects to the reel is the one with the tape-mark, and I've never had one fall off.

[happy]

Thanks brtech for the information and advice - very helpful and also encouraging to hear you have thought this through so well.

(I do remember times when the armorers stayed as long as there were people to check, and being very grateful for that.)

[mgriff]

As long as Brian's offering useful SN advice on behalf of the armorers', i'll throw in a few items from the bout committee point of view, too:

First, if you haven't already done so, check your confirmation letter to make sure that you're entered in the right events and that your club and classification information--both letter and year--is correct. If it's not, call or email the national office this week to get it corrected before you leave for San Jose. (Keep in mind that we don't change any ratings at the tournament.)

If you haven't received a confirmation letter, contact the national office immediately and have them email you your information. Don't wait to try to get it cleared up on the day you fence. If it turns out that the national office has no record of your entry, you will not be allowed to compete. We've had a few cases in the past, fortunately not for a couple of years, where families have shown up with a child ready to fence and no entry confirmation, apparently on the theory that "if we fly all the way across the country to get there, they'll have to let her fence." This is an incorrect theory.

Please check the initial seeding for your event, which is always posted the night before, to verify that all your information is correct. If there are errors, be sure to tell the bout committee before the end of the check-in period so we can fix it before the pools are set. It's easier for us and it's easier for fencers if we only have to set the pools and assign the referees once for each event. With six to ten events each day, a delay in even one event can make the whole day longer for everyone.

When you sign your scoresheet, please read what it says before you sign. Once the scores are entered into the tournament computers, what the sheet says happened is what happened. Also, if you bring us a DE slip that says your opponent won when you are actually the winner, we will tease you unmercifully.

Finally, if you are the parent of a fencer, please keep in mind that your child is the competitor and there are some things you may not do for your child: You may not check him in for his event. You may not bring his scoresheet to the bout committee table for him when he wins (unless he's being treated for an injury by the trainers). You do not have standing to make an appeal of a referee's ruling on his behalf. You absolutely may fetch and carry water and food for him, get replacement body cords inspected, cheer from the sidelines (unless it drives you both nuts), buy him new gear, take photos and videos, help him complete his bio form if he reaches the final eight, and generally do what you can to help him have fun fencing.

Remember, too, it never hurts to read the athlete information that's sent out with the confirmation letters. The answers to most of the questions people ask us at the bout committee platform are already right there, including the event formats and required gear, and usually including a classification chart.

Finally, keep in mind that the answer to almost every other question we are asked is "approximately twenty minutes," unless the last pool has not yet come in, in which case the answer will be "once the last pool comes in, approximately twenty minutes."

Mary

[fencerX]

Originally Posted by mgriff

First, if you haven't already done so, check your confirmation letter to make sure that you're entered in the right events and that your club and classification information--both letter and year--is correct. If it's not, call or email the national office this week to get it corrected before you leave for San Jose. (Keep in mind that we don't change any ratings at the tournament.)

So classification "corrections" are ok this week, but classification "changes" are not?

[mgriff]

Originally Posted by fencerX

So classification "corrections" are ok this week, but classification "changes" are not?

Right. If you are a D08 and have been a D08 for four months, but your confirmation letter says you are a E06 or a C07, that can be fixed. If you earned your C08 yesterday, it's too late for that to count for SN, even if your division officers sent it in to the national office immediately.

When I first started working BC about nine years ago, we still took changes at the bout committee table, which meant we spent the whole hour before each event started trying to determine what constituted an "official" notice of a change and trying to verify each one (and there were lots of them). People would come up armed with a coach or a division officer prepared to testify to the accuracy of the change; sometimes they were completely truthful and other times we would discover (usually after the fact) that there was a certain amount of invention or fantasy involved.

For a couple of years, we took changes only if they were on or printed out from a division website tournament results page, but then it turned out that those weren't always accurate, either. It often seemed rather arbitrary which changes were determined to be acceptable and which weren't.

The fixed cut-off date for classification changes works out much better. The date is still arbitrary, certainly, but it's a nice transparent arbitrary that's clear to everybody, and all the changes can be taken care of ahead of time.

Mary

[happy]

Originally Posted by mgriff

Please check the initial seeding for your event, which is always posted the night before, to verify that all your information is correct.
Mary

Thanks Mary - one question - is there a reason an initial seeding can't be posted online a few days before the tournament? To be updated the night before, and then the day of?

[mgriff]

Originally Posted by happy

Thanks Mary - one question - is there a reason an initial seeding can't be posted online a few days before the tournament? To be updated the night before, and then the day of?

The entry lists change by a bit all week long, with withdrawals and corrections, so anything the national office posted online would be only a snapshot from whatever time they picked to post it, not to mention that one of the things we do on the setup day is to go over all the events for at least the first couple of days to doublecheck the seeding against the points lists. (We check the rest gradually throughout the tournament.) That's one of the tasks that's actually much easier for SN than for NACs, since we don't have to worry about how foreign fencers are seeded for SN.

The lists we post at the venue the night before include withdrawals we get at the venue and are as accurate as they're going to get until we find out who any last-minute no-shows are at the close of check-in the next day.

Mary

[lindajdunn]

I'm looking at the option of shipping some items home versus paying the airline an additional $25.00. Will there be anyplace within walking distance of the venue that can box and ship items?

[IHateMrPotatohead]

Since Brian and Mary have been kind enough to speak on behalf of the armourers and bout committee, let me try to cover a few things from a referee standpoint. (I know I'll miss things, so please feel free to elaborate.)

1) Please be aware of your surroundings. This includes both listening for when pools/DE's are posted and reporting IMMEDIATELY, as well as where you are warming up and walking around. I've had several people run right in front of me right in the middle of a bout because they were warming up and not paying attention. Also, it is your responsibility to be aware of your pool being posted, not your referee's. Please listen for the announcement that they have been posted, and report to your strip ASAP. Don't forget to check-in once you get there.

2) If you fence foil or sabre and have long hair, PLEASE get it up off your lame. It gets terribly tedious for us to have to keep reminding people for ten days straight. You will be carded with no warning for this.

3) Understand that being a referee is not easy. It's hard work with a lot of long days, and like every other human on the planet, we are not perfect. Once in a blue moon, we do miss a call. Please do not throw a hissy fitover one call, it makes our job so much more unpleasant (and keep in mind we're currently not being paid for this abuse.) If you truly feel that your ref is being unduly biased for whatever reason, then feel free to complain to the proper authority, but to be honest, one wrong call doesn't indicate bias or incompetence.

4) Please thank your referees after each pool bout and each DE. Shake our hands when you go to sign the scoresheet. It really goes a long way in making us feel a little bit appreciated. This also goes for the bout committee person you just brought your DE slip to, and the armourer who checked your stuff. All of us don't get nearly enough "thank-yous"

5) Nationals is a long tournament. Many of us will be there the entire ten days. Remember to be as patient with us as we have been with you.


I'm sure there is more that people will add.

[teacup]

Originally Posted by mgriff

The entry lists change by a bit all week long, with withdrawals and corrections, so anything the national office posted online would be only a snapshot from whatever time they picked to post it, not to mention that one of the things we do on the setup day is to go over all the events for at least the first couple of days to doublecheck the seeding against the points lists. (We check the rest gradually throughout the tournament.) That's one of the tasks that's actually much easier for SN than for NACs, since we don't have to worry about how foreign fencers are seeded for SN.

The lists we post at the venue the night before include withdrawals we get at the venue and are as accurate as they're going to get until we find out who any last-minute no-shows are at the close of check-in the next day.

Mary

But by posting an initial seeding some preliminary corrections such as club affiliations, ratings, etc. could be made. Sure there will be still be no shows and changes on the day of the event but some mistakes could be caught earlier perhaps preventing reseeds.

Not everyone has the luxury of arriving the afternoon before to check initial seeding.

[teacup]

1. Please allow fencers enough time to crowd around the two bulletin boards with the 10 point font to find which strips they must report to for DE's, etc. before announcing that fencers must report IMMEDIATELY.

2. Please use enough ink on the copy machine so that the tableau can be read.

3. If possible, please keep the same events in adjacent pods so that coaches don't have to sprint to opposite sides of the convention center to coach.

Thanks!

[KD5MDK]

It's their exercise program.

Originally Posted by teacup

But by posting an initial seeding some preliminary corrections such as club affiliations, ratings, etc. could be made. Sure there will be still be no shows and changes on the day of the event but some mistakes could be caught earlier perhaps preventing reseeds.

Not everyone has the luxury of arriving the afternoon before to check initial seeding.

Was your information correct in your confirmation materials? Then you're fine. Are you looking for an opportunity to correct everybody else's information too? I don't think there's a standing for that.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by mgriff

Remember, too, it never hurts to read the athlete information that's sent out with the confirmation letters.

Ha!

The last time I read the athlete information I received a nasty papercut.

Never again! You can't fool ME twice!

-B

[mfp]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Was your information correct in your confirmation materials? Then you're fine.

Usually, but not always. The seeding for many events involves national point list standings, but the confirmation letters don't include that info.

While mgriff mentioned that seedings are double checked against the points lists, we still are seeing errors get through. From what I've gathered the process of getting points input into the event seedings and checking them is not completely automated (or pleasant).

[epeemike81]

Originally Posted by IHateMrPotatohead

4) Please thank your referees after each pool bout and each DE.

uh, I think you have an extra word in here...

Speaking for myself, if I'm your referee (which won't be true for anybody at summer nationals), please do NOT thank me after each pool bout. Once at the end of the pool will be sufficient.

-m

[wbowman]

Originally Posted by teacup

Not everyone has the luxury of arriving the afternoon before to check initial seeding.

At the very least, the initial seeding is generally up early on the morning of the event. (in fact, I never realized it went up the night before). If you get there with any amount of time at all before the close of check-in for your event, that should probably be sufficient.

[teacup]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Was your information correct in your confirmation materials? Then you're fine. Are you looking for an opportunity to correct everybody else's information too? I don't think there's a standing for that.

No, just offering those that don't read their confirmation material another opportunity to confirm and check. Obviously if everyone checked their confirmation materials and emailed the USFA about any errors there wouldn't be any corrections the day of the event only allowances for no shows.

Also even if an error is reported to the USFA, there is no additional confirmation that the change reached the bout committee.

Happy was the one that suggested that initial seedings be posted which is not necessarily a bad idea or impossible, especially if it helps the process for the bout committee.

mgriff disagrees and that is fine too but the suggestion is valid.

For example, I have emailed beforehand and then confirmed again at registration if one of my kids withdraws, and yet their name is still announced after close of check in. If the initial seeding were posted a week those that have withdrawn can again notify the USFA to be removed from the list of fencers.

[IHateMrPotatohead]

Originally Posted by epeemike81

uh, I think you have an extra word in here...

Speaking for myself, if I'm your referee (which won't be true for anybody at summer nationals), please do NOT thank me after each pool bout. Once at the end of the pool will be sufficient.

-m

I'm sorry....that was indeed a typo. I meant each pool (not pool bout!) Thanks!