2008 Summer Nationals

[misha]

When DEs were instituted, double-touches at the end (10-10, say) were counted as 10-10, and kept on going until a single touch occurred, I believe.

I have a different recollection:
There was 2 touches difference rule, up to 12 touches max.
So 10-9, 11-10 were not a win just yet; 10-8, 11-9, 12-10, 12-11 were.


.

[KD5MDK]

Given there are tests on the referee exam that cover all those events? I suspect you were all right, at different decades.

I found the referee exam much easier than people with more experience, because I didn't have any substantial rule changes affecting my memory of the correct answer.

[edew]

I have a different recollection:
There was 2 touches difference rule, up to 12 touches max.
So 10-9, 11-10 were not a win just yet; 10-8, 11-9, 12-10, 12-11 were.


.

But what did epeeists do when doubling at 9-9?

[piste off]

But what did epeeists do when doubling at 9-9?

It went to 10-10... and misha's recollection is correct. Win by 2 max to 12. If it went to 12-12 in epee the next touch won.

R-

[fencerbill]

Dan- Does it warn when there are non-equal sub-maximal sabre scores? Why only ties?

-B

As you reminded me, you directed a Sabre bout of mine where the final score was 13-11 after nine minutes.

[oiuyt]

As you reminded me, you directed a Sabre bout of mine where the final score was 13-11 after nine minutes.

10-8, by my recollection.

I specifically remember stating that being the score when you last inquired about the time remaining (18 seconds in the third period).

Note that that is only one of two tournament sabre bouts I have refereed which ended on time (the other being a 3-2 pool bout). At least with your bout there was some intelligent choice of strategy (and tactics) going on from ONE of the fencers involved.

I don't think the software should prevent such legal, if extraordinarily rare, scores, but warning about them doesn't seem out of place.

-B

[KD5MDK]

I believe Fencing Time does allow them.

[dberke]

I believe Fencing Time does allow them.

Ok, I just checked and the code simply warns if neither entered score is the maximum value allowed. This only applies to saber bouts in a pool, DE bouts are not checked for this. Also, it's just a warning, so you can leave it if the score is in fact correct.

Dan

[fencerbill]

10-8, by my recollection.

I specifically remember stating that being the score when you last inquired about the time remaining (18 seconds in the third period).

Note that that is only one of two tournament sabre bouts I have refereed which ended on time (the other being a 3-2 pool bout). At least with your bout there was some intelligent choice of strategy (and tactics) going on from ONE of the fencers involved.

I don't think the software should prevent such legal, if extraordinarily rare, scores, but warning about them doesn't seem out of place.

-B

I am absolutely sure I won. I am quite sure it was by 2 touches. If asked, I would have said 13-11, but you may be correct. At my age things do blur a little.

[hello?]

To go back to the earlier subject...A referee announcing the result at the end of a bout does not mean that it was recorded correctly (I happened to be on the other side of this once: had gone 6-0 in a veteran NAC and had to face someone who had also gone 6-0 earlier than I needed to because she had signed the wrong score sheet...Her entire pool went to the BC to try to change it but the BC refused -- as they should have, I guess. It was early in my fencing career so having gone 6-0 in pool was a first and, perhaps, a fluke...I lost that DE that should have happened in the round of 8 pretty squarely in the round of 16). That is why the rule is there to check before you, as a fencer, sign. I was upset because her mistake only cost me a medal. But it IS the rule, I guess...At Sectionals this year I heard a younger fencer in my pool saying that she didn't bother to check because she always knew her scores were awful -- I told her she should make herself check NOW because she'll eventually get better and there will be one day when she will forget to check and it will go against her...However, the referee should announce the winner at the end of each bout, right? Even if he or she does, other bouts happen between that announcement and the point when the fencers sign the score sheet. So their announcing the names before does not matter. It's not like the ref is supposed to announce all the results at the end to make sure the sheet has it "right." Ie.: "Pool over. Victory for A over B, C, and D. For B over D and F. For C over..." So what does it matter if he announces or not? The fencers are supposed to make sure that he recorded it right.

[KD5MDK]

Of course, when an error is made on the scoresheet there's always at least two people who signed off on it.

[Lemonaide]

It looks like Eric still has it. What a remarkable performance, and congratulations. I don't know of too many other fencers who could be so consistent: [see Mens Veteran Foil]. I was just looking at the results for mens epee, foil and womens epee and foil. Many of the names we've come to recognize are gone. I was surprised to notice that mens epee did not include some of the better fencers from Louisiana, but they're fencing was 'interrupted' by events beyond their control. Bon Chance and more happy fencing.

3TDewEricNORTH CAA2008

[Lemonaide]

Over two hundred from NYC and only a few from LA-MISS-ARK. It's amazing. Also, my other old haunt only had a few competitors. NYC seems like a touch crowd. I like the new excel spreadsheets, the coaches can download the results, and sort by division, ranking, and new rating for training purposes. It's great!!!

[Lemonaide]

Sorry if this is an 'overpost', but I took another look at the excel spreadsheet results, NYC sent 216 fencers from all divisions and weapons, [so it was easy to sort and resort] which helps them to dominate the piste. The coaches must be having a field day. In looking at it all and resorting, if I put your top 50 places including ties, without regard to rank, weapon, or age; those are your top fencers. I wondered as well, what percentage of National placers make it out into the International competitions and how well do they do there? Any statistics on that.

[edew]

Did I ever lost it?

[epeemike81]

I am absolutely sure I won. I am quite sure it was by 2 touches. If asked, I would have said 13-11, but you may be correct. At my age things do blur a little.

My recollection (spectator) jives with oiuyt's: 10-8.

-m

[Jason]

Sorry if this is an 'overpost', but I took another look at the excel spreadsheet results, NYC sent 216 fencers from all divisions and weapons, [so it was easy to sort and resort] which helps them to dominate the piste. The coaches must be having a field day. In looking at it all and resorting, if I put your top 50 places including ties, without regard to rank, weapon, or age; those are your top fencers. I wondered as well, what percentage of National placers make it out into the International competitions and how well do they do there? Any statistics on that.

Quite a few of the New Jersey and Long Island fencers fence at NYC clubs, so your sorting doesn't give you all the info.

[KD5MDK]

Neither does their lack of acquaintance with reality.

[Lemonaide]

noooooo sabruuuuuuse

[Lemonaide]

Interesting post, I didn't know that....sorta screws things up a bit for my next betting pool.