Pacific Coast Discussion Forum

[CadetVet]

Folks:

I'd like to get a Pacific Coast Discussion forum started - but my understanding is that Craig is waiting until he updates the BB software. In any case, until I can start a separate forum section, I'd like to get the discussion started here.

There are a few things that I would like to mention.

First, I will be moving the web site to another service (wordpress, actually). It's free and, although not quite as flexible, will serve us without additional cost. The address will remain the same (I will set up a redirect to it), but you can see it now at http://pcsfencing.wordpress.com. In addition, I will be putting the section calendar on google - so those of you with iCal (or some other iCal compatible service) will be able to automatically synchronize to it.

Second, we are considering several possible tournament formats for the PCC's next year. They are as follows, and I'd appreciate honest, constructive input.

1. Youth/Cadet/Junior PCCs on one weekend; Senior/Team/Div II PCCs on another weekend
2. Junior/Senior/Team one weekend; Youth another weekend
3. Junior combined with the March SYC; Senior/Team/Div II/Vet on another weekend; Youth/Cadet separately

Of course, there are other options - feel free to make suggestions!

Third, I will be putting together a structure for the "designated divisional" tournaments. Under this plan, each division will be asked to select one of their normal events to be a designated event. Section fencers can earn points in such an event (probably 250 or so) and can count up to three or four of them for their sectional point total. The underlying goal is to bolster a divisional tournament and get folks to travel a little within the section. Expect more on that in the near future.

Finally, I would like each of you to find your local "free weekly" paper and send me their name, editor name, email address and geographic area. In my neighborhood, we have several, including the Park LaBrea Press, the Beverly Press and the Larchmont Chronicle. These are papers with about 24 pages that are distributed within a neighborhood. I hope to press-release an athlete's local one when they have a victory at a section event - and also to encourage divisions to do the same. To get a look at the kind of coverage we can get, see the attached PDF article about my daughter (from last week's Park LaBrea Press).

Thanks for bearing with this - and we will create a separate forum on Fencing.NET when that capability becomes available.

Best,

Gary Zeiss
Incoming Section Chair

[counterattack]

I wonder if the answer might be different by weapon. As an epeeist I'd like to see Junior, Div I, Vet on the same weekend. This is just working backwards from the group of fencers I'd want to have incentive to be present. I am not sure if the foil group or sabre groups needs their vets AND juniors present as much as epeeists do. But in epee circles we have Gago and Raynis (vet and junior) as excellent examples of why we need these groups to be combined. I suppose if it is in L.A. area then it isn't as important since we are likely to get both no matter if they are separated or not. But if it is Vegas or NorCal the division of events becomes pretty important since the lazy bastards in SoCal don't travel.


-philip

p.s. happy memorial day everyone.

[edew]

Originally Posted by counterattack

I wonder if the answer might be different by weapon. As an epeeist I'd like to see Junior, Div I, Vet on the same weekend. This is just working backwards from the group of fencers I'd want to have incentive to be present. I am not sure if the foil group or sabre groups needs their vets AND juniors present as much as epeeists do. But in epee circles we have Gago and Raynis (vet and junior) as excellent examples of why we need these groups to be combined. I suppose if it is in L.A. area then it isn't as important since we are likely to get both no matter if they are separated or not. But if it is Vegas or NorCal the division of events becomes pretty important since the lazy bastards in SoCal don't travel.


-philip

p.s. happy memorial day everyone.

Sorry, you forgot to emphasize it...

[theLuz]

Originally Posted by edew

Sorry, you forgot to emphasize it...

hey........I'm down here................

[teacup]

Not only is the combination important but when the events are held is also important.

This year the junior events were less attended due to them being held the weekend in between AP exams, it being Mother's Day and the team and junior events on the same day. Many juniors who were auto qualified either choose to only fence the senior/team events or none of them.

If the Jr qualifier is to be held in May, it should be announced in July so that fencers attending out of town schools can determine which division/section to represent, since some may be home from school by May.

As for travel, the juniors have been alternating travel between Northern and Southern California for the Jr/SYC, so it isn't that they aren't used to travel they just may not have chosen to travel to Las Vegas in May especially if SN's will be far away. Having the senior event in Southern or Northern California rather than Las Vegas, I believe leads to lower participation from all junior fencers, not just those in Southern California.

Therefore, I would suggest hosting the Jr with the SYC in March, either in Northern or Southern California and hosting the Div IA/team/Vet events in April or May in either Northern or Southern California.

Also, I would suggest making the Youth PCC's an RYC and host them in April or May. (Earlier would even be better.)

[CadetVet]

Originally Posted by teacup

Not only is the combination important but when the events are held is also important.

This year the junior events were less attended due to them being held the weekend in between AP exams, it being Mother's Day and the team and junior events on the same day. Many juniors who were auto qualified either choose to only fence the senior/team events or none of them.

If the Jr qualifier is to be held in May, it should be announced in July so that fencers attending out of town schools can determine which division/section to represent, since some may be home from school by May.

As for travel, the juniors have been alternating travel between Northern and Southern California for the Jr/SYC, so it isn't that they aren't used to travel they just may not have chosen to travel to Las Vegas in May especially if SN's will be far away. Having the senior event in Southern or Northern California rather than Las Vegas, I believe leads to lower participation from all junior fencers, not just those in Southern California.

Therefore, I would suggest hosting the Jr with the SYC in March, either in Northern or Southern California and hosting the Div IA/team/Vet events in April or May in either Northern or Southern California.

Also, I would suggest making the Youth PCC's an RYC and host them in April or May. (Earlier would even be better.)

Our potential dates are taking the AP Exams/SATs into account. If they are run together, we're going to try or hardest to avoid that weekend. That will push it earlier, but there are only so many weekends from which to choose. A lot depends on venue availability/size.

Also, with regard to location, I really want to stay in SoCal/NorCal

Finally, the Youth PCC's cannot be an RYC due to RYC rules, unfortunately.

Gary.

[CadetVet]

Originally Posted by counterattack

I wonder if the answer might be different by weapon. As an epeeist I'd like to see Junior, Div I, Vet on the same weekend. This is just working backwards from the group of fencers I'd want to have incentive to be present. I am not sure if the foil group or sabre groups needs their vets AND juniors present as much as epeeists do. But in epee circles we have Gago and Raynis (vet and junior) as excellent examples of why we need these groups to be combined. I suppose if it is in L.A. area then it isn't as important since we are likely to get both no matter if they are separated or not. But if it is Vegas or NorCal the division of events becomes pretty important since the lazy bastards in SoCal don't travel.


-philip

p.s. happy memorial day everyone.

Why leave paradise?

[fencerwallet]

Gary,
The Youth PCC's were very poorly attended this year, clearly because it was not a SYC as in prior years. I appreciate that Saul hosted the event which reduced costs, but this route will basically make the youth PCCs a non-entity. It was mostly attended by the NorCal people, who I doubt will travel to it next year if it is not "enhanced". My 2 cents feel the youth events need to be a SYC and combined with the Junior qualifying events. This would insure a better, more competitive field, better Y14 kids can also fence Jr and thus fence more than 1 event so as to justify travel, etc. Otherwise, get rid of the Youth PCCs altogether (because it would not be a representative tournament) and just focus on Jr and Sr events.

As for your press releases, parents should check with their kid's schools, since they usually have someone they contact to get school/student-related articles printed in the local newspapers.

[teacup]

Originally Posted by CadetVet

Our potential dates are taking the AP Exams/SATs into account. If they are run together, we're going to try or hardest to avoid that weekend. That will push it earlier, but there are only so many weekends from which to choose. A lot depends on venue availability/size.

Also, with regard to location, I really want to stay in SoCal/NorCal

Finally, the Youth PCC's cannot be an RYC due to RYC rules, unfortunately.

Gary.

That's fine. I was just stating my suggestions clearly. I also wanted to make the point that if there is any chance the Div IA or junior qualifiers will be in May, this should be determined early so that out of town students can determine the correct division/section before renewing their memberships.

As for the separate Youth PCC's, unless they are an RYC or SYC, like Fencerwallet, I don't see the point of them. Go ahead and host them if you want, as long as they don't lose money.

[edew]

Originally Posted by CadetVet

Our potential dates are taking the AP Exams/SATs into account. If they are run together, we're going to try or hardest to avoid that weekend. That will push it earlier, but there are only so many weekends from which to choose. A lot depends on venue availability/size.

Also, with regard to location, I really want to stay in SoCal/NorCal

Finally, the Youth PCC's cannot be an RYC due to RYC rules, unfortunately.

Gary.

What rule is this, considering that the past 3 YPCCs (not including this seasons) were also SYCs?

The YPCCs have been open to fencers from outside the section as well. If you want to restrict it to just the section, then I can see it being NOT a RYC.

[seven6ty]

Just have it around LA, and make sure that the Junior/Senior open/senior team don't all overlap.

[CadetVet]

Originally Posted by edew

What rule is this, considering that the past 3 YPCCs (not including this seasons) were also SYCs?

The YPCCs have been open to fencers from outside the section as well. If you want to restrict it to just the section, then I can see it being NOT a RYC.

I was told by the RYC coordinator that they don't like combining the Youth PCCs and an RYC. Could be lots of reasons for this that I won't bother to conjecture about.

[CadetVet]

Folks:

I posted the PCC's RFP on the 'new' web site - http://pcsfencing.wordpress.com. (it is under the About tab). Take a look if you are interested. All I ask is that you don't distribute it directly - instead send me the contact information of anyone who you think it should go to - it will make managing the process a lot easier.

Thanks!

Gary.

[notalent]

Originally Posted by CadetVet

Our potential dates are taking the AP Exams/SATs into account. If they are run together, we're going to try or hardest to avoid that weekend. That will push it earlier, but there are only so many weekends from which to choose. A lot depends on venue availability/size.

Also, with regard to location, I really want to stay in SoCal/NorCal

Finally, the Youth PCC's cannot be an RYC due to RYC rules, unfortunately.

Gary.

A yoth championship seems to run contrary to the USFA which does not designate championships for that age range. Do a combined JrPCC SYC and a Sr Team Vet event. The combined event this past year showed the major issues if we get decent tournout. I personally like the idea of a vet event but I can understan that it will take away from the team event or make the saturday prohibitively long.

[CadetVet]

Originally Posted by notalent

A yoth championship seems to run contrary to the USFA which does not designate championships for that age range. Do a combined JrPCC SYC and a Sr Team Vet event. The combined event this past year showed the major issues if we get decent tournout. I personally like the idea of a vet event but I can understan that it will take away from the team event or make the saturday prohibitively long.

To a large extent, it depends on venue availability. I'm looking at spaces that range from 18,000 sq ft (plus vendor space) to 35,000 sq ft (which would allow for lots of options). It kinda depends on the profile once we get our RFP responses.

[4qtrs]

Gary,

Have you asked the Divisions to post a link to the new website? It might be a good idea so people (who aren't using f.net) can get use to the change. Just a thought.

S

[CadetVet]

Originally Posted by 4qtrs

Gary,

Have you asked the Divisions to post a link to the new website? It might be a good idea so people (who aren't using f.net) can get use to the change. Just a thought.

S

S:

That won't be necessary. When I make the switch over, the www.pcsfencing.com address should work as well - it will be a redirect. I haven't done it yet because I'm concerned about downtime while people are trying to figure out qualifications, etc., and the change over may cause an interruption.

When the change does happen, both addresses should point to the same web site - but for now, it is http://pcsfencing.wordpress.com

G

[shinekomi]

In regards to the "designated divisional" events, will you have separate designated division events for Juniors, Seniors and Youth? Or will the results from one event trickle down to its respective category?

I would suggest not having the Junior/Senior Team events on the same day, due to losing potential teams to the Junior event. How about an SYC + Senior Team event and open the team event to other nearby sections? (Just thought I'd through that out there...)

The site looks great, and Wordpress makes life a lot easier. The smiley face is a nice touch, too.

[CadetVet]

Originally Posted by shinekomi

In regards to the "designated divisional" events, will you have separate designated division events for Juniors, Seniors and Youth? Or will the results from one event trickle down to its respective category?

I would suggest not having the Junior/Senior Team events on the same day, due to losing potential teams to the Junior event. How about an SYC + Senior Team event and open the team event to other nearby sections? (Just thought I'd through that out there...)

The site looks great, and Wordpress makes life a lot easier. The smiley face is a nice touch, too.

A lot is going to depend on venues. I've got two that I'm talking to right now -one in NorCal, one in SoCal, that have lots of space (space = strips). As a comparison, Pasadena is about 25,000 sq. ft, (21k useful) - I'm looking at a couple of spaces that are 50% bigger. In that event, it makes sense to consolidate as much as possible into that weekend.

Note that the size issue is not by design, but instead because I came across a couple of interesting options. The RFP (on the site) looks for a Pasadena-sized space, but bigger would allow more to occur.

This begs the question of where the greatest value could occur - Sr/Jr/Youth on the same weekend would be possible with 35 strips. That would cause a team problem, but at the same time, it would serve the greatest number of fencers (and amortize the costs). It may even be possible to do Sr/Youth on day one and Jr/older-than-junior on day two.

Then the problem becomes teams... which I know a lot of people like. But for the team to work, we need teams - and aside from epee, there weren't that many of them. Perhaps, we could attach the team event to one of the circuits (the Boardwalk, perhaps - I'm just thinking out loud). It may boost their attendance.

Again, a 2am stream of conciousness... but worth playing with.