Cracks in a sabre guard

[Inquartata]

Can they be repaired?

I have a crack running about half an inch in from one edge of an Allstar aluminum sabre guard. I'm not looking for a professional solution; I have been told that aluminum can be welded, but I suspect it's an expensive process. Any quick fixes anyone knows about?

[Zilverzmurfen]

Can they be repaired?

I have a crack running about half an inch in from one edge of an Allstar aluminum sabre guard. I'm not looking for a professional solution; I have been told that aluminum can be welded, but I suspect it's an expensive process. Any quick fixes anyone knows about?

Can it be soldered?
If not; get a new guard.

[Inquartata]

I am...cheap.

Plus, every new component alters the balance and feel of a weapon. I have it just the way I like it and am loathe to change...

[Zilverzmurfen]

I am...cheap.

Plus, every new component alters the balance and feel of a weapon. I have it just the way I like it and am loathe to change...

Dude, the price of a new guard is roughly comparable to the price of a beer (if you go out). Surely not even you can be that cheap?

I totally understand the change of components adds to the weapon feeling a little different, but...you'll adjust. If soldering won't work to 'fill up' the cracks then try duct taping the inside of the guard.

[SJCFU#2]

Aluminum can be welded however it takes someone who knows what they're doing, especially since it would be all too easy to burn through something as thin as a saber guard.

It would probably be cheaper to simply replace the guard.

[Grimaldi]

I am...cheap.

Plus, every new component alters the balance and feel of a weapon. I have it just the way I like it and am loathe to change...

After all the threads where I've read Inquartata mock people for making such a big deal out of uniform material, various grip advantages, etc., to hear him lament a change in his sabre guard is delicious.

Is your guard some unusual type you can't buy any more? Looks like a good sabre guard is over $30, so I can understand looking to save a few bucks (can't imagine what kinds of places Zilverzmurfen must buy his beer at, though!), but welding aluminum is a little more tricky than steel.

I've always wanted to know how well products like these work:
http://durafix.com/
http://www.weld-aluminum.com/
Maybe you could give it a shot for the good of fencers everywhere and let us know how it goes?

[Zilverzmurfen]

(can't imagine what kinds of places Zilverzmurfen must buy his beer at, though!)

Ok, I stand corrected -- seems sabre guards are more than twice the price of a good épée guard. *gulp*
But still, make that 5-6 beers, or 3 drinks.

(And I'm a she. )

[migopod]

i used to do this kind of custom repair stuff, and sabre guard aluminum isn't that terribly thin (we used to practice welding beer-cans together). Anybody with a tig welder and a little skill with it should be able to get it done for you. The problem is that unless it's someone you know who will do it as a favor or in exchange for beer or services, it will probably be fairly expensive. Depending on the extent of the crack, the welding and prep would probably take a few minutes and sanding and buffing would maybe take five or ten, so you're looking at less than a half hour of actual work. Most welding shops will still charge you for an hour, and back when I was doing it an hour for regular welding was around $50. For aluminum, it was closer to $75.

If you can find someone to do it for cheap or beer, i'd say go for it. I hate throwing away something that could be repaired relatively easily. If you can't tho, it's probably not worth what it would cost compared to replacement.

Unfortunately i don't have a tig welder currently, or i'd offer to do it in exchange for rep .

[Swordmaster]

Can they be repaired?

I have a crack running about half an inch in from one edge of an Allstar aluminum sabre guard. I'm not looking for a professional solution; I have been told that aluminum can be welded, but I suspect it's an expensive process. Any quick fixes anyone knows about?

Come to the next Rose Condon in Shreveport and I can get it welded for you at my shop....but of course you would have to fence in a segregated event.

[Inquartata]

Dude, the price of a new guard is roughly comparable to the price of a beer (if you go out). Surely not even you can be that cheap?

Meh, you have no idea.

I totally understand the change of components adds to the weapon feeling a little different, but...you'll adjust. If soldering won't work to 'fill up' the cracks then try duct taping the inside of the guard.

Actually, I was wondering about covering the crack with a tiny, thin plate, attached with tiny rivets...

I'm just not sure I want to call attention to it. Thus far it's escaped the attention of referees and armorers. I'm not sure whether it violates any rules or material standards as it is; it's not gapping, so I doubt it could catch a blade. But it's likely to get worse.

Come to the next Rose Condon in Shreveport and I can get it welded for you at my shop....but of course you would have to fence in a segregated event.

What!? I thought segregation went out in the 1960's!

[fencerbill]

Use an aluminum pop rivet about one quarter inch in from the rim with the stalk on the outside of the guard. One eighth size pop rivet, the three sixteenths is too much. Then put the inside of the guard on the rim of your vise and pound it down a little from the outside. For this, and only this, don't use a backer plate on the outside.

I have used pop rivets on Sabre guards before with no complaints. In fact, back in the days of capteurs, most were installed with pop rivets, even new guards. I have also used pop rivets when the guard breaks back near the pommel.

It will stabilize the guard and really won't change the balance that much. It may be enough. It may vibrate a little differently when the guard is hit, but whether it makes a diffference is up to you.

(Edit) Use just the single pop rivet, not the plate and multiple rivets. They will change the feel and balance much more than just the single pop rivet.

Now don't call him cheap, Gav will appreciate that he is just being thrriffftty.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

I'm just thinking that any permanent solution to this problem will make the guard feel different............

[Inquartata]

Hopefully not perceptibly. Or maybe I can compensate at the pommel end.

I might try that, Bill. Thanks.

Would a regular rivet work as well, or is there something special about the pop variety?

[keeper of the swords]

drill a small hole at the furthest progression of the crack (1/16" dia or so...) This should stop further progression of the crack. There are a few braze/solder specialty items for aluminum, but they don't work well on all alloys.

[Inquartata]

Aaaand then that hole has to be filled, right? Pierced guards being prohibited, I mean...

Another rivet?

[fencerbill]

Hopefully not perceptibly. Or maybe I can compensate at the pommel end.

I might try that, Bill. Thanks.

Would a regular rivet work as well, or is there something special about the pop variety?

The side of the pop rivet with the piece the applicator pulls out will be very flat. When you pound it a little, it will be very very flat. Then it won't catch a blade, sort of like you don't want a Sabre guard to have any concave sections of the rim.

Rivets made for a particular purpose, like those used to rivet the steel reinforcing disks on many guards, will not protrude after they have been applied. General purpose rivets that will leave a similar flat surface might be very hard to find.

Therefore, a pop rivet is a solution that is convenient to find and to apply. And thrifty. No guarantee it will solve your problem but it might hold it together until you can get it properly repaired by Swordmaster or someone else.

[Nolano]

Honestly.... Like migopod said, unless you know someone who will do it as a favor, it's most likely not worth it. The welding, anyways.

I could probably do it, although I have about 10 times the experience with steel as I do with aluminum. Were it steel, I'd offer to do it as a favor for the price of postage. Aluminum that thin may be out of my ability range. And depending on the alloy, it may not actually be weldable. I know that while 6061-T6, an aircraft grade, is weldable, 7075 is not, although it's stronger.

[samster]

i think (?) w/ aluminum finding one crack is like seeing one cockroach. where there's one, there are millions. steel has elasticity/elongation. alum does not. stress on alum eventually fatigues the metal.

if you don't get a new guard now, it's really just a matter of time.

love being the bringer of bad news... but i'm no metallurgist so i may be wrong.

[Inquartata]

Oddly, I have older and more battered aluminum guards which are not cracked...

[oiuyt]

Oddly, I have older and more battered aluminum guards which are not cracked...

And a yet older and more battered head which is... :)

-B