USFA Lifetime Membership for Tournament Officals

[Grimaldi]

Originally Posted by foillion

As far as paying the 400 out of pocket, I've been told that if I wanted to apply the check I would earn from summer nationals to the membership, it was a valid option. Just to let you know.

-P

Maybe you can pay the remainder of your bill on a USFA-style timeline of "when I get around to it"? As long as you get your membership up front, of course...

[formerfencer]

Originally Posted by CadetVet

Can someone verify this? I'd probably do it if I could apply my SN monies.

Yes, per Dana Brown's email:
"Reimbursements through Summer Nationals can also be applied to this offer."

[davesaint]

To be honest, I don't think this is all that great of a deal. If the USFA wanted to throw a bone to the Fencing Officials, they should be giving those officials Free USFA Lifetime Memberships. The amout of work that the officials do at tournaments is by no means adequately compensated by their stipend.


Dave

[IanSerotkin]

Originally Posted by davesaint

To be honest, I don't think this is all that great of a deal. If the USFA wanted to throw a bone to the Fencing Officials, they should be giving those officials Free USFA Lifetime Memberships. The amout of work that the officials do at tournaments is by no means adequately compensated by their stipend.

I agree with this. While it would be financially irresponsible to start handing out free Lifetime Memberships left and right, I think it would be a nice (and appropriate) reward for Officials who have worked a significant number of national events--let's say 20, for argument's sake.

Setting the bar that high would require at least three years of service (f you worked every single event), but would still be an obtainable goal.

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by hpfencing

WOW I think it actually has a little merit. It does make good business for the USFA. If only a few of the people take advantage of it; it'll help the USFA lower it's owed money, help coolect extra revinue here and there AND will not cost them anything but a membership card! Good thinking.

It does cost something, future services. All I am getting from my life mambership, now that my knees are used up, is American Fencing four times a year and E-mails.

But it is a way to make up for the embarrassing situation where payment cannot be made immediately.

God forbid someone gets the idea that they want interest on the money they are owed. Ed Korfanty won't be the only law suit. There is small claims court.

A contrast with what is claimed for the NRA is that I don't believe anyone is talking about discounted memberships, only dollar for dollar credit towards life membership.

I think it is a good, fair effort to make up for an embarrassing situation where payments can't be made immediately.

One possible enhancement is that people could be given until the end of the 08-09 season to accumulate credits toward the life membership. After that they should be expected to pay the balance in cash. Still a good deal in my opinion.

[fencerX]

Originally Posted by fencerbill

A contrast with what is claimed for the NRA is that I don't believe anyone is talking about discounted memberships, only dollar for dollar credit towards life membership.

Your belief system is flawed:

Originally Posted by Original Offer

Officials can redeem their reimbursements owed towards a $1,000 life membership (a discount of $200.)

[fencerbill]

my bad, I did read it but you know about CRS.

[yeoldearmourer]

This would not do my wife anygood since we got are life menbership when it was 300.00

[Grimaldi]

Originally Posted by davesaint

To be honest, I don't think this is all that great of a deal. If the USFA wanted to throw a bone to the Fencing Officials, they should be giving those officials Free USFA Lifetime Memberships. The amout of work that the officials do at tournaments is by no means adequately compensated by their stipend.


Dave

While a nice thought, this would only exacerbate the problem. The current plan will assist, in some small way, the USFA reducing its current debt and additionally raise a little extra cash. The tradeoff is losing future membership revenue for all those members.

Giving memberships away retains the problem of decreased future income, without the benefits. I'm not savvy to the intricacies of the officiating in the USFA, but I would assume the stipend isn't intended to fully reimburse officials for their time. USFA is a non-profit organization, and while they realize enough people aren't willing to freely donate their time for events, a small stipend certainly helps. Parents don't umpire in little league baseball for the few bucks...it's because they want to support the program.

To fully pay qualified officials for events properly, considering time invested, rating, etc. would just make tournaments (and USFA memberships) that much more expensive.

[Grimaldi]

Gah...duplicate post!

[CadetVet]

Originally Posted by Grimaldi

While a nice thought, this would only exacerbate the problem. The current plan will assist, in some small way, the USFA reducing its current debt and additionally raise a little extra cash. The tradeoff is losing future membership revenue for all those members.

Giving memberships away retains the problem of decreased future income, without the benefits. I'm not savvy to the intricacies of the officiating in the USFA, but I would assume the stipend isn't intended to fully reimburse officials for their time. USFA is a non-profit organization, and while they realize enough people aren't willing to freely donate their time for events, a small stipend certainly helps. Parents don't umpire in little league baseball for the few bucks...it's because they want to support the program.

To fully pay qualified officials for events properly, considering time invested, rating, etc. would just make tournaments (and USFA memberships) that much more expensive.

Actually, it is probably a little smarter than that. A life membership costs 20 years of standard memberships at $50/year. The present value of that (assuming 5% interest) is about $650. Assume a 5%/year attrition rate, and the value gets even lower. So, one could argue that the value to the USFA of 20 years of membership payments (assuming a flat fee and taking attrition, etc., into account) is about $600 - if they can clear more than $600 in expenses per official, they're ahead in today's dollars.

[fencerX]

Originally Posted by CadetVet

Actually, it is probably a little smarter than that. A life membership costs 20 years of standard memberships at $50/year. The present value of that (assuming 5% interest) is about $650. Assume a 5%/year attrition rate, and the value gets even lower. So, one could argue that the value to the USFA of 20 years of membership payments (assuming a flat fee and taking attrition, etc., into account) is about $600 - if they can clear more than $600 in expenses per official, they're ahead in today's dollars.

No, a standard life membership is currently priced at 24 years (not 20) of the current $50 a year standard membership price. As has been pointed out, association life membership fire sale discounts offers do have fallout.

There also might be current costs to include in any calculations. Will refs who take the offer get the "lifer" jackets some other life members have received?

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by fencerX

There also might be current costs to include in any calculations. Will refs who take the offer get the "lifer" jackets some other life members have received?

Standard life memberships do not come with a jacket or any other tangible benefit beyond that given with the standard membership. Or at least they didn't several years ago when I paid for mine.

-B

[arc]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

Standard life memberships do not come with a jacket or any other tangible benefit beyond that given with the standard membership. Or at least they didn't several years ago when I paid for mine.

-B

I certainly didn't get one when I got mine last year, although I *did* get a nice jacket as a present after making a donation to the Association this spring ...

[Grimaldi]

I'm curious to know just how many people are eligible for this. It must be a fairly substantial number, to make this course of action worthwhile. There must be a LOT of officials waiting on payments...

[dsapery]

Originally Posted by yeoldearmourer

This would not do my wife anygood since we got are life menbership when it was 300.00

No, but you could give a life membership to one of your kids! I'm sure that some of them (and I'm thinking of one in particular) are going to be around this sport for many years to come, and a life membership probably wouldn't be a bad investment for them.

But I'm also guessing that the aforementioned child of yours can probably get her own life membership, since I'm guessing that she's owed money as a referee too.

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by Grimaldi

I'm curious to know just how many people are eligible for this. It must be a fairly substantial number, to make this course of action worthwhile. There must be a LOT of officials waiting on payments...

I would bet there's probably 120-140 or so. There's about 60 referees at a NAC, and 3 so far unpaid NACs, but a reasonable number of referees overlap. Then there's the armorers, the Bout Committee staff...

The deadline has just been extended to July 1st according to an email I received today. Incidentally, for people who are awaiting payment for JOs this probably means there's no chance of getting paid before Summer Nationals is over.

[JEC]

With my life membership, I got a nice letter from Dana Brown, a USFA jacket pin, and a plastic keychain.

[Mike Ross]

Since the reposting of information is common here I'm going to post this from the FOC Website:

From the Chairman:

Dear Referees,

Please consider accepting this offer. As most of you have heard, the USFA is in considerable financial difficulty, due, in large part, to our tremendous efforts to qualify as many fencers, as highly as possible for the Olympic Games, in Beijing.

By becoming life members, we, as a group, show our unwavering support of US Fencing and our Olympic athletes. What's more, we will be making a statement to all that we are committed to fencing and to our avocation as fencing referees.

This program will have a direct and substantial benefit to the USFA, and, when you stop to think about it, really costs us nothing, except for the time we spent on strip.

All in all, a bargain!

Thank You ,

Bill Oliver

Chair

Fencing Officials Commission

[nyacfencing]

Whenever friends working for financially troubled companies ask my opinion, I always give the same advice: The very first time you don't receive your paycheck on schedule, jump ship. Not making payroll is one of the surest signs of unrecoverable financial disaster.

Many years back, a club in our division was in hock for huge sums. They held a great membership discount sale for anybody purchasing an annual membership. Many took advantage of the sale. Just days later they were shut down by state rangers, and fencers were escorted in to pick up their belongings. Apparently the club knew full well this was about to take place.

I am not suggesting that this is the case here, but remember: if the USFA owes you $500 and you take this deal and pay the other $500 for a lifetime membership and the organization does go belly up next week, you lose the $500 they owed you, the $500 you gave them, and your lifetime membership.

I have been a fencer for 20 years and want the USFA to succeed with every ounce of my being... and am willing to work with others on solutions to achieve such. However as a business decision, throwing good money after bad is clearly an unwise one for referees.

The only case in which this makes sense is if the USFA owes you $1000 or greater, which would fully cover the lifetime membership with no additional amounts paid by you. This way you are not increasing your risk or exposure, and it is a good savings opportunity and a great way to help support the organization!