Coaching Certification

[kuroutesshin]

I'm a collegiate fencer, but when I return home in the summer I help my old coach instruct and lead his fencing classes, being one of the more advanced graduates of his club to come back and help. He leads the classes and myself and another student instructor demonstrate, give fencers lesson one-on-one, help run drill, catch kids up, etc. I'm also helping him set up training and classes, as well as practice spaces for the summer.

Would it be appropriate/helpful/advantageous for me to seek accreditation with the USAFCA, since I plan on coaching and learning much more about fencing in the coming years? Obviously my dream would be to become a Maestro, but that's years down the line- right now I'm looking at taking the test for the Moniteur d'Armes, both for the legitimacy and the prestrige of signing my name "K.T, Moniteur d'Armes"

Does anyone recommend this, or have any other advice for me? Are any coaches out there accredited with the USAFCA, or are some of you not?

[oiuyt]

Well, that depends on what you're looking to gain from the certification.

If it gives you a reason to go further your (fencing coaching) education and means that you do so to a greater extent than you would without the incentive of a diploma, it's quite likely valuable.

If it helps gain you a desired opportunity that you wouldn't otherwise have with the same knowledge/experience but without the piece of paper, it's quite likely valuable.

If your goal is to become a better coach because you've been certified, then it's quite likely useless.

If you want something pretty to hang on the wall, it may be worthwhile.

If it's something you're going to do anyway because your eventual goal is to earn a master/maitre/maestro diploma, then it's something you need to do anyway and you might as well do it now, if convenient.

Many coaches are accredited by the USFCA (note only 1 A). Many are not.

-B
*full time coach, not a member of the USFCA*

[kuroutesshin]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

Well, that depends on what you're looking to gain from the certification.

If it gives you a reason to go further your (fencing coaching) education and means that you do so to a greater extent than you would without the incentive of a diploma, it's quite likely valuable.

If it helps gain you a desired opportunity that you wouldn't otherwise have with the same knowledge/experience but without the piece of paper, it's quite likely valuable.

If your goal is to become a better coach because you've been certified, then it's quite likely useless.

If you want something pretty to hang on the wall, it may be worthwhile.

If it's something you're going to do anyway because your eventual goal is to earn a master/maitre/maestro diploma, then it's something you need to do anyway and you might as well do it now, if convenient.

Many coaches are accredited by the USFCA (note only 1 A). Many are not.

-B
*full time coach, not a member of the USFCA*

Thank you. What do you mean by "become a better coach because you've been certified?" It's milling in my head, but it's late and I'm tired.

Also, thanks for the correction- whenever I say "USFCA" a jumble of letter just falls out- like USAFACACUS or some such nonsense. USFA, USFCA, FOC, FIE, BBQ, SPQR... so many acronyms to keep straight.

[Allen Evans]

Originally Posted by kuroutesshin

Would it be appropriate/helpful/advantageous for me to seek accreditation with the USAFCA, since I plan on coaching and learning much more about fencing in the coming years?

Keep in mind that it is the avowed mission of the USFCA to only certify coaches, not train them. In that regard, your path towards accredidation is a completely seperate path from "learning much more about fencing".

If that's really your goal, I would suggest that while some members of the USFCA might be a good resource for you, the organization as a whole will have little to offer you at this stage in your coaching development. Since you have summers off, I think it much more worthwhile to pursue programs with the USFA Coaches College (not offered this year - unfortunately) and with your own coach (is he a member? Why or why not? Have you talked to him about the USFCA?).

I recieved my Prevot degree from the USFCA a number of years ago, but I haven't been active the last two or three years. Fifty dollars a year (the dues for a Prevot) seemed a lot of money for what the organization was giving me.

AE

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Allen Evans

Keep in mind that it is the avowed mission of the USFCA to only certify coaches, not train them.

Should we use this opportunity to turn the discussion to how, due to that self-imposed limitation, the USFCA has made itself irrelevant?

I've discussed with various members of the USFCA governance how they need to turn themselves into an educational organization, but the response (one which you, Allen, surely are familiar with) is always: "We could never get everyone to agree on a single 'fencing school' to teach."

It's a ridiculous limitation.

While I'm fairly certain that they'd end up choosing something that I, personally, would think was imperfect, I would certainly respect them more for just choosing something.

Choose a methodology. Teach it. Give accreditation based on it. Develop an actual program. Uppity fencing masters like Jason Sheridan might say, "Oh, no, no, no. That's all wrong," but at least the organization would actually have a point. Have a process for improving the material, so the syllabus doesn't stagnate and even the uppity types might eventual come on board.

[Allen Evans]

Jason:

Since I'm not an "uppity fencing master", my opinion on this subject -- the same as yours -- has been dismissed out of hand. The USFCA doesn't even do its core mission of certifying coaches very well. There have been postive steps taking in improving the process and making it more transparent, but following those steps still seems to be up to the individual exam boards -- which seems to have wildly different standards when giving tests.

I think that the US desperately needs an organization to represent fencing masters and the profession of teaching fencers. The USFCA seems to have willingly decided that they are not that organization. Why? I have no idea. As someone tellingly told me: "I know more ex-members of the USFCA than I know current members".

AE

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by kuroutesshin

Thank you. What do you mean by "become a better coach because you've been certified?" It's milling in my head, but it's late and I'm tired.

I'll rephrase.

If you think that being certified makes you a better coach than if you did everything else the same, other than sit the exam, you're probably going to be disappointed. The diploma doesn't magically confer knowledge, experience, or ability. Working towards it might, but that's true whether or not you receive certification.

If the certification, as an extrinsic reward, gives you the motivation that you don't have intrinsically or from some other extrinsic source, then the process might prove beneficial. If having the certification helps you accomplish some OTHER goal independently of your knowledge, experience, and ability then it might prove beneficial. Those were the first two responses I gave.

-B

[kuroutesshin]

Thank you for the advice. The extra perspective is very welcome.

[Fencergrl]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

If you think that being certified makes you a better coach than if you did everything else the same, other than sit the exam

Am I correct from assuming from this post that in the US, to become certified as a coach, all you have to do is write an exam?

[RITFencing]

After talking with someone who is a certified fencing master and one of the coaches I most respect in the country (if not the world) about certification processes and the USFCA in particular...

I'd say that one of the biggest benefits of the USFCA course of study is that it forces you to learn certain things. When the coach I refered to earlier took his test, it was based off of Foil Fencing by Istvan Lukovich and Fencing and the Master by Laszlo Szabo. I have no idea what the test is based off of these days, but it can help provide you with some direction.

That being said, I am also a full time coach with no USFCA certification.

[RITFencing]

Oh, one more thing...

Despite my personal loathing of titles, they can sometimes help bring a bit more money in for a coach. Being a fencing master, having certifications, etc, are just like havign personal success in the fencing world or having successful students. They can bring more people, and let you charge a little more.

I know that sounds very mercenary, but speaking once again as a full time coach... you need to pay very close attention to the monetary end of things if you plan to be very serious as an instructor.

[RITFencing]

Originally Posted by Fencergrl

Am I correct from assuming from this post that in the US, to become certified as a coach, all you have to do is write an exam?

There are two main certificatory (is that a word?) bodies for fencing coaches in the US.

The USFCA has no formal training program and gives Moniteur, Prevot and Maitre d'Armes certifications, and I believe is affiliated with the AAI. They do have occaisional clinics and other things, but the main point, as far as I can tell, is to certify coaches.

Coaches College, offered evey summer in a non olympic year at the USOTC, holds week long clinics in coaching with a test at the end. There are five levels for each weapon, and I believe that taking the fifth level requires a significantly longer period of study.

[Fencergrl]

Is there a practical test as well or is it all theory?

[RITFencing]

Originally Posted by Fencergrl

Is there a practical test as well or is it all theory?

Can't comment too much on the USFCA test, but from what I understand there are both practical and theoretical parts.

For coaches college, there's a written exam and a practical.

[Fencergrl]

Sounds similar to the Canadian system then. It sounded initially that it was just a written test.

[RITFencing]

Many high level coaches that I know don't have much or any certification, so at least in the US it isn't really necessary.

[Fencergrl]

I find that a lot of high level coaches in Canada became Fencing Masters in Europe. From what I learned, they need to have a degree in physical education as part of their training.

[Allen Evans]

Its important to note that the USFCA is the only organization in the US that can confer a designation of "Moniteur", "Prevost", or "Fencing Master'. The "certification" conferred by the USFA is entirely an internal matter, and not recognized outside of the USFA.

For the USFCA certification, there is both a written and a practical test. For the title of Maitre, there is a thesis requirement.

AE

[Padawan]

Back in the day when I took my certs. from the USFCA(when dinosaurs roamed the earth). You could become an instructor in one weapon at a time (now called moniteurs). To become a Prevost you had to have a working knowledge in all three weapons. The moniteur exam was questions, definitions and a practical in the weapon being tested and could be given by a Prevost or Master (mine was done my Max Garrett). The Prevost examination was a series of essays and a practical done with a student that had achieved a B level of achievement in at least one weapon. The practical test was given by a panel of three Masters (I only remember Bill Shipmen, the coach at Brandies from mine, the other two were from LI). I understand that some of these things have changed over the last 14 yrs though but you can probably find them on the website. I agree with Allen that there needs to be a body of fencing professionals for this sport much like CPAs, doctors, lawyers and dentists to help the profession.

Do I think that it helps, in this day and age, yes. Parents feel more at ease knowing that you have been "tested" and passed by someone in a recognized authority on the subject. Is it necessary or manidatory, no.