USFA Election 2008 Debate Question #8: USFA back payments

[Inquartata]

That's just the example of which I was thinking, but I didn't know the parameters of the USOC funding. For all I know that can be used for referees and cadre as well...

[oiuyt]

A message from Kalle:

Originally Posted by T

And we have heard so much from Kalle? If we follow your logic...

Thanks for asking. I've written and/or reviewed and edited all of the major posts from the nominees, as well as the material on our website. As Greg noted in his post a day or two ago, the nominees work as a team, so we collaborate extensively on our proposals via email, as we bring diverse skills, experiences and opinions to the topics we are considering.

As an aside, I am also a faithful f.net reader—lurker—of not only the election threads but others as well (tractor tire posts among them…) I've noted a number of ideas for future reference, most recently CadetVet's thoughts on raising our visibility, and IanSerokin's offer of assistance with a tech rfp. Thanks to both of you, and everyone else who takes the time to think about and post ways to improve our sport and association.

With recognition that I am committing thread drift, I'll report that I called Gerrie Baumgart earlier this week to request that the Election Committee publish the procedures they plan to use for preferential voting; as of last night (Thursday) when we spoke again she indicated that the document was undergoing its last reviews and would be available shortly. I will serve as the nominees' observer during the ballot counting process.

K.

[T]

After reviewing the financial info provided by Greg (thanks), Sharol and I have developed the following outline for the current financial situation of the USFA.

USFA is in a serious financial situation. Many of us are owed reimbursement money for refereeing or for athlete expenses or Performance Awards. In order to develop a financial plan, it is important that we examine the budget and expenses of the USFA.

1. Elite Programs account for 20% of the income (from USOC grants) yet they account for nearly 40% of the expenses.
2. In 2006-07, National Tournaments (NACs, JO, and Summer Nationals) lost $207,000.
3. The average venue cost of the NACs is nearly $13,000/day.
4. Donations accounted for only 1% of Revenues.
5. Merchandise sales accounted for less than 1% of Revenues.
6. Membership dues/services accounted for 26% of Revenues yet only 7% of Expenses.

Short-run Financial Priorities:

1. Hire a Chief Financial Officer to oversee all financial aspects of the organization.
2. Institute close Budget development and approval process with the Budget & Finance Committee.
3. Develop a plan of reimbursement for all referees, athletes, and tournament officials that have outstanding reimbursements.
4. Bring NACs to at least a break-even point and hopefully profitable by reducing size (smaller venues) and increasing number (more of them).
5. Develop a plan for Elite Athletes that includes a reduced number of Designated Events scheduled for the 2008-09 season and the inclusion of International Referee expenses to be included in the Weapons Program budget.
6. Expand Merchandise Sales with online store on the website.
7. Regular communication with USFA membership about financial status.
   

Short-run Cost Containment/Cutting Proposal (International/Elite Programs):

Proposal:

Reduce the number of Designated Events for the 2008-09 season.

Rationale:

Performance Enhancement Awards (PEA) are awarded only on Designated Events. By reducing the number of Designated Events, the Performance awards distributed will be considerably less. Many Weapons programs are paying for a significant portion of the travel expenses to world cup events so PEA are not being used to reimburse the cost of that trip.

Proposal:

Limit entries to World Cup events in 2008-09 to 4 per event; if there are more than 4 entries per event, then the Referee expense will come from the weapons budget.

Rationale:

Countries are required to send 1 referee per 5 athletes registered. If entries exceed this, then the weapons budget will be responsible for Referee expense.

Proposal:

Athletes, referees, and coaches make/purchase their own flight arrangements with a pre-specified limit.
Rationale:

Under specific guidelines, athletes and other cadre can make their own flight arrangements which will avoid travel agent fees.

Short-run Cost Containment/Cutting Proposal (Domestic Tournaments)

Proposal:

Use a fixed stipend payment system for all tournament officials which will allow them to book their own travel and book their own hotel.

Rationale:

A fixed stipend payment system will allow all tournament officials to arrange for their own accomodations and travel which will avoid travel agent and THS fees. This will also encourage tournament officials to use frequent flyer miles that have been earned as a function of their service to NACs because they will pocket the benefit.

Short-run Payment of Accounts Payable to athletes, referees, and tournament officials

Proposal:

Develop a payment plan for all debts (owed to athletes, referees, and tournament officials) on the books. This plan will include approximate dates for payments to be sent to fulfill the financial reimbursement obligations.
The plan will focus on first-in, first-out process however limits will be established to allow percentages of various debts to be paid to ensure that everyone gets some payment as soon as possible -- even if it is not 100% payment.The plan established will specify payment dates/amounts for each person owed money.

Rationale:

A specifc plan which includes dates of payments will allow people to plan their personal finances better and will assure them that payment is being processed. Payment limits will allow people to receive partial reimbursements sooner while allowing individuals to plan for remaining reimbursements.

Intermediate/Long-term Financial Priorities:

1. Bring accounts payable for referees, tournament officials, athletes to 30 days.
2. Re-investigate the National Training Center concept.
   
3. Develop a major sponsor or donation program for Elite Athlete Programs

National Training Center:

Proposal:

1. Re-investigate the National Center concept which would include offices, 25+ strips, dorms for camps and tournament officials, food-services, training facilities, showers, etc.
   
2. Investigate funding options for the facility such as a a) Limited Partnership proposal that would allow investors to invest in the facility and rent it to the USFA or b) corporate sponsor to fund the facility.

Rationale:

1. Venues and Freight of equipment are currently costing $550,000/year. If you add the expense of hotels and food which totals another $450,000/year -- making the total costs for holding NACs, $1million/year. All of this could be housed out of the National Training Center.
   
2. All office functions could be moved to the National Training center which would reduce expenses associated with rent in Colorado Springs (another $10,000/year)

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by T

Proposal:

Athletes, referees, and coaches make/purchase their own flight arrangements with a pre-specified limit.
Rationale:

Under specific guidelines, athletes and other cadre can make their own flight arrangements which will avoid travel agent fees.

Short-run Cost Containment/Cutting Proposal (Domestic Tournaments)

Proposal:

Use a fixed stipend payment system for all tournament officials which will allow them to book their own travel and book their own hotel.

Rationale:

A fixed stipend payment system will allow all tournament officials to arrange for their own accomodations and travel which will avoid travel agent and THS fees. This will also encourage tournament officials to use frequent flyer miles that have been earned as a function of their service to NACs because they will pocket the benefit.

Given that these are short-term proposals intended to be in place for next season, what are the fixed rates you (or Sharol) are proposing?

* The pre-specified limit for international travel.
* The fixed stiped for domestic.

What is included in the fixed stipend (ie what, if anything, are tournament officials paid beyond the stipend? Does the stipend vary based on level of the official or role?)?

Do international trips also have a fixed stipend, or are you only proposing guidelines and limits for the travel portion?

Have you talked with any of the people that have been in the fixed-stipend pilot program to gather data about how well they thought it worked? What potential problems were identified? Suggestions for further improvements?

-B

[JEC]

Originally Posted by Capt. Slo-mo

As far as I'm concerned, Brad is the anti-hoarder, which is why I'm thrilled he was unopposed. Not that it would have been a tough vote to decide...

I strongly agree with the Capt. Over the past few years, Brad was the only BoB member that was providing information in F.Net on a regular basis including minutes (his own account at the meeting), and agendas (even prior to meeting). He has my vote ... (even if he doesn't need it).

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Originally Posted by T

Proposal:

Reduce the number of Designated Events for the 2008-09 season.

Rationale:

Performance Enhancement Awards (PEA) are awarded only on Designated Events. By reducing the number of Designated Events, the Performance awards distributed will be considerably less. Many Weapons programs are paying for a significant portion of the travel expenses to world cup events so PEA are not being used to reimburse the cost of that trip.

What's the cost breakdown of PEA money paid out per weapon program vs the total budget of the squad expenditures? Is it a significant percentage? (edit: should have read the books first! For 2006-2007, the PEAs only paid out at 35% of their budgeted level...hardly a backbreaker)

I'd also point out that, at least in WS, the Squad starting covering travel expenses only within the last year or so of the Quad. The other 3 years, the PEA is the only way athletes have to subsidize a portion of the cost of international travel.

[Soberin]

Re two of T's proposals above:

1. Limiting World Cup events (either Senior or Junior) to only 4 fencers will reduce the opportunity for international experience for those who need it to make team selection, as well as to improve their fencing in a more competitive environment than may be available in the USA.

2. Frequent flier miles, as we all know, have become almost useless. There are far too many restrictions, fewer seats are available for specific dates (no flexibility for NACs--dates are fixed) and therefore should not be proposed as a way to save money for the USFA by thinking these "miles" could be easily used by tournament staff or referees.

[oso97]

Originally Posted by Soberin

2. Frequent flier miles, as we all know, have become almost useless. There are far too many restrictions, fewer seats are available for specific dates (no flexibility for NACs--dates are fixed) and therefore should not be proposed as a way to save money for the USFA by thinking these "miles" could be easily used by tournament staff or referees.

Ummm... not necessarily so. I've got a bunch of miles racked up almost entirely through USFA service (at the regional and national level). I've used them to travel to events where I was coaching instead of refereeing and had no problems...

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by T

Notable Budget Items:

1. Elite Programs account for 20% of the income (from USOC grants) yet they account for nearly 40% of the expenses.
2. In 2006-07, National Tournaments (NACs, JO, and Summer Nationals) lost $207,000.
3. The average venue cost of the NACs is nearly $13,000/day.
4. Donations accounted for only 1% of Revenues.
5. Merchandise sales accounted for less than 1% of Revenues.
6. Membership dues/services accounted for 26% of Revenues yet only 7% of Expenses.

1) What is an appropriate level of Elite Program support? Should it be 1:1 with USOC money?

2) From the reports we were told at the 2008 JO Board meeting, the NACs in 2007-2008 were so far profitable. Does this change your plan any?

(skipping donations and merchandise)

3) What is the proper ratio of dues to membership services expenses? Should we plan to increase services until they are equal?

Short-run Financial Priorities:

1. Hire a Chief Financial Officer to oversee all financial aspects of the organization.
2. Institute close Budget development and approval process with the Budget & Finance Committee.
3. Develop a plan of reimbursement for all referees, athletes, and tournament officials that have outstanding reimbursements.
4. Bring NACs to at least a break-even point and hopefully profitable by reducing size (smaller venues) and increasing number (more of them).
5. Develop a plan for Elite Athletes that includes a reduced number of Designated Events scheduled for the 2008-09 season and the inclusion of International Referee expenses to be included in the Weapons Program budget.
6. Expand Merchandise Sales with online store on the website.
7. Regular communication with USFA membership about financial status.
   

1) What parameters do you have for a plan for reimbursing outstanding expenses? Is there a timeframe it must be within?

2) Do you have an studies or evidence that reducing the size of National Tournaments would be more cost effective, as opposed to just reducing our economies of scale? Right now we concentrate of 4 day tournaments where shipping and airfare is amortized across 4 days. If we go with more frequent tournaments, our volunteers don't have the time to spend on tournaments of equal length, therefore they will have to be shortened to 3 or 2 day events, which doubles the cost/day of shipping and airfare.

Short-run Cost Containment/Cutting Proposal (International/Elite Programs):



Proposal:

Limit entries to World Cup events in 2008-09 to 4 per event; if there are more than 4 entries per event, then the Referee expense will come from the weapons budget.

Rationale:

Countries are required to send 1 referee per 5 athletes registered. If entries exceed this, then the weapons budget will be responsible for Referee expense.

Proposal:

Athletes, referees, and coaches make/purchase their own flight arrangements with a pre-specified limit.
Rationale:

Under specific guidelines, athletes and other cadre can make their own flight arrangements which will avoid travel agent fees.

If we limit entries for World Cups to 4 entries per tournament for most competitions, will fencers not currently in the top 4 or 5 points holders have a chance to advance? If the WC spots are always taken up by the current team members, the next fencers down have very restricted chances to move up the points list.

What % of the cost of travel do travel agent fees cost, and is it a significant savings to have everybody booking their own arrangements.

Short-run Cost Containment/Cutting Proposal (Domestic Tournaments)

Proposal:

Use a fixed stipend payment system for all tournament officials which will allow them to book their own travel and book their own hotel.

Rationale:

A fixed stipend payment system will allow all tournament officials to arrange for their own accomodations and travel which will avoid travel agent and THS fees. This will also encourage tournament officials to use frequent flyer miles that have been earned as a function of their service to NACs because they will pocket the benefit.

Right now my reimbursement is about $350 per event, which excludes the hotel and airfare the USFA pays. If I have to add (4x$75 hotel and $300 airfare) I'm looking at nearly $1000 I'm waiting to receive.

I earn about 3500 frequent flier miles per trip to either coast, since I'm in the middle. If the redemption rate is 25000 miles per round trip, it means I need to work 8 tournaments in order to get 1 round trip ticket. That's not a big change.

National Training Center:

Proposal:

1. Re-investigate the National Center concept which would include offices, 25+ strips, dorms for camps and tournament officials, food-services, training facilities, showers, etc.
   
2. Investigate funding options for the facility such as a a) Limited Partnership proposal that would allow investors to invest in the facility and rent it to the USFA or b) corporate sponsor to fund the facility.

Rationale:

1. Venues and Freight of equipment are currently costing $550,000/year. If you add the expense of hotels and food which totals another $450,000/year -- making the total costs for holding NACs, $1million/year. All of this could be housed out of the National Training Center.
   
2. All office functions could be moved to the National Training center which would reduce expenses associated with rent in Colorado Springs (another $10,000/year)

Will fencers located out of driving distance of the National Training Center tolerate never again having a national tournament within driving distance? What are the annual costs of operating dorms? Will sufficient hotel space be available nearby for our tournament entries? Right now lots of people value the ability to book hundreds of hotel rooms right across the street from the venue.

How much do we lose by dropping our connections to the other NGBs and facilities in Colorado Springs?

[T]

[quote=Soberin;692829]Re two of T's proposals above:

1. Limiting World Cup events (either Senior or Junior) to only 4 fencers will reduce the opportunity for international experience for those who need it to make team selection, as well as to improve their fencing in a more competitive environment than may be available in the USA.

[quote]
Remember, these are short-run solutions in order to reduce the deficit. They will be taking place in the first year of the quadrennial when international travel for athletes is typically lower anyway.

The proposal calls for limiting the entries to 4 HOWEVER, if the Weapons Coach believes that it is in the best interest of the team to enter more athletes, then the proposal suggests that the money come out of the Weapons budget. So, if the Budapest Jr. World Cup is an event that the Coach feels is an important team qualifier where more than 4 should attend, then the Weapons program will be responsible for the $1500-$2000 it cost for the extra referee.

In both the the Junior & Senior categories, there are typically 12-14 Jr. World Cups. For those that are using world cups for 'developmental' purposes, they may be better suited for the world cups that are not as high a strength factor (ie, ones that have not been regularly selected in the past).

[T]

Originally Posted by Capt. Slo-mo

What's the cost breakdown of PEA money paid out per weapon program vs the total budget of the squad expenditures? Is it a significant percentage? (edit: should have read the books first! For 2006-2007, the PEAs only paid out at 35% of their budgeted level...hardly a backbreaker)

You have it backwards; the approved budget was $35k; they paid out $100k.

I'd also point out that, at least in WS, the Squad starting covering travel expenses only within the last year or so of the Quad. The other 3 years, the PEA is the only way athletes have to subsidize a portion of the cost of international travel.

I agree, it would be nice to be able to Designated all World Cups so that athletes can attend them all and have their performance rewarded. For the seniors, the FIE only uses 6 events (out of 14) and for the Juniors they use 3 (unless there is a non-European event - then they use 4) to calculate the point standings. Typically, the year after the Olympics, athletes travel less to world cups. This is a short-run measure; not a long-run solution.

What is needed is a major sponsor or a donation program that enables the elite athletes to travel. We don't have that yet but it is one significant intermediate/long-run solution.

[teacup]

Has it been considered that due to higher costs for air, gas, hotels, food, etc. that FEWER people may attend national events in the upcoming season?

To encourage participation by more college student fencers, rather than hosting national events over four days around holidays, has it been considered to make these two day events aligned with school exam, holiday and NCAA schedules? Aside from time constraints, rising education costs may further reduce the number of college fencers who can afford to travel both nationally and internationally.

Has shortening or re-aligning the season been considered? The season is almost a year long. Maintaining a year long season is difficult for even the most committed junior/youth fencers.

Isn’t 1990 the peak birth year for generation Y? Has it been considered that youth entries may start to decline? With the growth and addition of SYC’s and higher travel costs more youth fencers may choose regional events instead of the time and expense needed to attend national events.

What about adding a regional cadet circuit?

Demographically isn’t the growth now in older fencers? Wouldn’t adding events for this age group be more profitable?

Higher travel costs may even curtail international travel. Perhaps, only those highest on the points list or those with unlimited funds will be able or willing to attend.

Reduce or eliminate assigned coaches for international events. Some fencers bring their own coaches, others are on their own, others are students of the assigned coach. There are no guidelines in the athletes handbook as to the responsibilities of assigned coaches. Some parents may prefer a chaperone who would organize travel arrangements for the "team" rather than an assigned coach.

If there are more people who wish to attend an international event, could the option of the fencers themselves funding the additional ref be considered? Or fencers are given the choice of assigned coach or ref?

Are the numbers of confirmed entries for Summer Nationals meeting estimates? (I know quite a few fencers in California who are considering not going to SN due to time and higher travel expenses.) Have expenses been recalculated to include higher fuel, food and airline luggage costs?

Contracts for venues are being signed up to 2014. With escalating fuel costs will large tournaments in convention centers be viable? With higher costs and stagnating wages, maybe the USFA should focus more on regional events with national tournaments only for championships events. Economic conditions may force the USFA to change.

And finally does anyone know if the NAC in Portland made money?

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!


Some time ago, I saw on the net that Alisher Usmanov paid for a lot of fencing costs in Africa, South America, and I think parts of Asia.

Out of his personal pocket.

Since he seems to be the only one out there who combines serious money (can spend millions of USD in an heartbeat!) with a serious interest for fencing, why not approach him?

Claim that USFA should be considered one of the developing-nations federations, and beg real hard?

I am sure that Tracy and Kalle have something to offer in return!


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by teacup

To encourage participation by more college student fencers, rather than hosting national events over four days around holidays, has it been considered to make these two day events aligned with school exam, holiday and NCAA schedules? Aside from time constraints, rising education costs may further reduce the number of college fencers who can afford to travel both nationally and internationally.

Can you find 27 tournament days on weekends only that won't conflict with school exam schedules? The month of December is pretty much out (college exams in the beginning, high school in the middle, Christmas at the end).

[bigdawg2121]

Originally Posted by PeterGustafsson

Hi!


Alisher Usmanov... his personal pocket...why not approach him?


I am sure that Tracy and Kalle have something to offer in return!


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

Pause. Better yet, FULL STOP. On behalf of all on fencing.net and in the name of decency I'm going to give you a chance to rewind and finish this post more tastefully. Please do better.

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

Originally Posted by bigdawg2121

Pause. Better yet, FULL STOP. On behalf of all on fencing.net and in the name of decency I'm going to give you a chance to rewind and finish this post more tastefully. Please do better.

Well, promise that USFA will support him in his next (?) bid against Roch.

What were you reading into it?


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson