The surface of the epee point

[crquack]

Are there rules that specify how smooth the epee point should be? I could find nothing specific by Googling.

It seems to me that a highly polished point is a definite disadvantage as opposed to one with a piece of velcro attached which might be considered unsporting.

Is there a latitude somewhere in between? Has anyone manipulated the surface of their epee point?

[jjefferies]

After a very short bit of use all mine get really rough and gnarlly from being hit on bell guards, other blades etc. So I really think your concern is moot. Though somewhere in the back recesses of my mind I think there is a rule about the roughness. I believe the athelete's handbook is the place to look. But adding velcro is simply not worth the hassle.

Also don't bother with things like lightening the main spring etc. For epee what you want is the minimum of "stiction", see the Wikipedia, which means cleaning the point and perhaps adding some lubrication (if you are so minded).

[peet]

Originally Posted by crquack

a piece of velcro attached which might be considered unsporting.

Not to mention illegal, plus the fact that it would cause the weapon to fail the "hit the bell" test. The front of the tip has to conduct through the tip to the wires inside, so that it will ground out and not light the light when you hit your opponent's bell or the strip.

-p

[piste off]

Old pentathlete trick:

Clear varnish or nail polish on the bottom half of the point. Use top half to test against the bell guard. Employ quick coupe picks to the top of the hand, aiming for the top of the guard.

Rick

[tdwg83]

Note that in materials there is also a rule about Uniforms not being too slick to cause a point to glace off (M.25.3) but no quantitative test.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by piste off

Old pentathlete trick:

Clear varnish or nail polish on the bottom half of the point. Use top half to test against the bell guard. Employ quick coupe picks to the top of the hand, aiming for the top of the guard.

Rick

Sounds like a good idea until you obviously don't hit the hand, and i check, then black card you .

[Agent_V]

Read m.19 in the rules. Specifically, note that the edge of the tip must be chamfered or rounded.

[Agent_V]

Originally Posted by downunder

Sounds like a good idea until you obviously don't hit the hand, and i check, then black card you .

I think he missed the part about swiping the epee tip on the ground in celebration - thus rubbing the evidence off.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by Agent_V

I think he missed the part about swiping the epee tip on the ground in celebration - thus rubbing the evidence off.

I'd be surprised if it came off with swiping the ground. From what I can tell from watching my girlfriend, it takes some effort with solvent and paper towel to get even a small layer of polish off. Maybe I'm wrong though, anyone care to enlighten me?

[telkanuru]

Originally Posted by Agent_V

I think he missed the part about swiping the epee tip on the ground in celebration - thus rubbing the evidence off.

You're mixing two techniques. There was a Russian who pulled this trick, but with a booger at 14-14 in a WC final (IIRC), and then swiped it on the ground, clearing the evidence.

[snarsdale]

I rather suspect that boogers are conductive, being saline based, therefore, wouldn't work as planned.

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by downunder

Sounds like a good idea until you obviously don't hit the hand, and i check, then black card you .

In modern pentathlon that'd be trickieir, as bouts are only one touch long.

I don't think it'd be a good idea in a normal fencing tournament, as there are too many opportunities to get caught. And if you do get caught, black card.

(Plus, it's cheating.)

[the ancient one]

Sounds like a new product line for our high-end suppliers:

"Finest hand-picked certified non-conductive Russian Epee Boogers" 5ml @ 30 euros.

Gives flick a new meaning.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by the ancient one

Sounds like a new product line for our high-end suppliers:

"Finest hand-picked certified non-conductive Russian Epee Boogers" 5ml @ 30 euros.

Gives flick a new meaning.

But would Dos Santos have to approve them...FIE boogers???

[telkanuru]

Originally Posted by snarsdale

I rather suspect that boogers are conductive, being saline based, therefore, wouldn't work as planned.

I rather suspect the definition of "conductive" is not binary.

[piste off]

Originally Posted by snarsdale

I rather suspect that boogers are conductive...

No they're snot.

Rick

[peet]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

I rather suspect the definition of "conductive" is not binary.

You mean boolean.

-p

[crquack]

Also don't bother with things like lightening the main spring etc. For epee what you want is the minimum of "stiction", see the Wikipedia, which means cleaning the point and perhaps adding some lubrication (if you are so minded).

Here is the thing: On Wednesday and one or two sessions before that, I lost several touches with having apparently scored first, no light, and then being hit by riposte. I mean, not subtle, the blade was bent and all (including the infamous fleche charge). I borrowed my wife's epee, won all fights with it, went back to mine, lost again under same circumstances.

Throughout the session I kept testing the point and could not get it to misbehave.

I felt bad blaming my tool for my shortcomings, but today I finally got to have a closer look. Here is what I found:

On straight activation both points lit up at about 1500 gm. I then tried a few off centre hits on BOB and the difference was quite marked: My wife's point would not bend more than about 5 degrees before lighting up. If I applied pressure with mine slowly, I could bend the blade 90 degrees and the point would not connect.

I bathed the tip in acetone, dried it and sprayed it with G96 gun oil. It stopped misbehaving immediately and on direct pressure it now lights up at about 1200 gm.

And now we wait to see what I managed to dissolve with the acetone and the gun oil...

[telkanuru]

Originally Posted by peet

You mean boolean.

-p

Get out of my head!

[logomachon]

For historical interest only:
Variation on the nail polish trick. Put a dab in the middle of the tip. Use the edge for testing. Keep making quick jabs to the hand. When the light goes off, either it is accepted or challenged. The first two culprits in line are a dirty bell (touch counts) and a weak tip return spring (retest). The typical way to test for the latter is to make quick glancing hits with the side of the tip. If the ref can't create an error, the touch is good.